Never drove a manual S5, so I can't compare, however, I have a LOT of manual cars and won't ever buy a manual again. Sorry, but for the extra "sportiness" and "connected" fell, I'll take an automatic any day. The Tiptronic is faster and gets better gas mileage and doesn't have a clunkiness or clutch to wear out and it isn't a PITA to drive in city traffic.

There is a reason why the auto costs more. It's better, faster, gets better mileage, easier to drive, and MUCH better in traffic.

 

Auto is not faster! All auto cars cost more! But who in there right mind buys a auto sports car!! Unless it's for your wife! My friend jus bought a auto S5 & I make fun of him everyday. But he can't drive manual.. So if you don't have the skill then I could understand! Your problem with first & second maybe you just ain't shifting properly.. And if you guys are worrying about what's better on gas then maybe you should be driving a civic & not a S5:cheers:

 

Not so sure that the tip S5 is faster. Not a dual clutch, is it?

 

i dont think its dual clutch no... not according to the audi website anyway. But i can understand it being smoother and from videos it looks pretty quick on the change anyways. Its just to make life easier around town as the clunky gearbox has its moments!

I know im going to get all the "why by a sports car for round town?" comments but its my daily driver, and i make good use of it on the twisties at the weekend so need the driveability to be best of both worlds.

 

I am pretty sure that the 2010 Manual 0-60 is around 4.9 seconds. The Tip is about 5.6-5.7. That is a big difference when you are sprinting to 60 in only 5 seconds.

When we are talking about the RS5 dual clutch, then that is a whole other ball game -- yes, that beast is quick!

 

I am pretty sure that the 2010 Manual 0-60 is around 4.9 seconds. The Tip is about 5.6-5.7. That is a big difference when you are sprinting to 60 in only 5 seconds.

Actually, Audi claims 5.1 seconds for the 2010 auto, but I stand corrected, the manual is faster. :cheers:

 

This may help:
I went from a 'remapped' A5 manual to a Tiptronic S5.
Its my first ever auto car of any kind or class.
Driven the car now for around 7 months and love it. It did take a little getting used to, however I most definitely would recommend it. I wouldn't say its better or worse than the manual, its just 'different'.
Its far from slow reacting (both in auto and 'semi-auto using the paddles to shift). Infact its VERY fast in changes. I'm not a pro driver so would say it changes faster than I could do manual.
One thing I'd recommend is the drive select option as this makes a big difference to the way the car changes and selects its gears. Having engine setting to comfort V dynamic is like driving 2 completely different cars.
If you do a lot of city driving in particular the tip would be an excellent choice.
One thing I find a little better for me is that I'm more 'comfortable' sat in the car driving the auto than the manual especially in lots of start stop traffic. Think this could be because not having to keep pressing and releasing clutch and also maybe the offset peddle design.
I also like the fact that in the auto during 'very' spirited driving along winding country lanes that both my hands are always on the wheel.
I loved both my manual and also this tip gear box. And prior to owning this car I was firmly in the manual only camp. However this tip has changed my view forever.
If you go for test drive, and its got drive select, make sure you slap her in dynamic mode, as you may think 'wheres the power' when in comfort..
Best of luck with it.

 

I was in a similar position to you TommyMac, having had what I considered to be fairly focussed manual cars for years I wasn't overly enamoured by the thought of switching to a tipronic / s-tronic / whatever they are calling whichever system they're pushing these days.

In the last two S3's I've owned (both manual), I've suffered clutch issues (one gave up at 11,000 miles), then issues with dual mass flywheels, notchy second gears, and inconsistent clutch pedal release. Up until my S3's I've never changed a clutch in my life, and some years I'd driven 40,000 miles in a year! I'm on my 4th clutch in 7 years of S3 ownership (2 cars)!!

Whilst the gearboxes are way better than say something you'd find in say a Peugeot, LUK clutches installed in the S3 just don't seem to be able to handle the torque (particularly if you add any 'magic beans' to the mix). I've had better luck with Sachs, but the offset is a slight loss in smoothness of pedal and clutch feels markedly heavier.

Now that cars are producing significantly more power/torque than they were a decade or so ago, my perception is that manual gearboxes are pretty much at their limits, probably aren't getting much investment spend, are prone to more issues due to human intervention (fork selector wear / clutch issues / DMF issues), and where the DSG helps is the way it seamlessly serves up gears with precision rather than having them thrusted by some over adrenaline-fuelled bod (e.g. us) who may be throwing gears haplessly as the g-forces and personal style allow.

My only criticism of the S-tronic unit I test drove was just the slightest lag from putting the pedal down to getting the power down. It's only minuscule, but noticeable when your used to launching a manual that can do it instantaneously. Might have been a trait of the car (or you may be able to bypass it in launch mode), but I found it slightly unnerving coming out of busy junctions (esp. when the bloody stop start kept kicking in :thumbsdown:

On the whole I liked it more in stop / start traffic as it's just so easy, on the open road I loved the 'barp' between gearchanges and the ability to keep both hands on the steering wheel. For the first 15 mins it did feel a bit Playstation, but once I'd settled to it it was better than expected. It's that detachment from the mechanical process which feels a shame as you're less at one with the car, but then I have to admit that following a good few sessions of professional driving tuition whilst I think I'm a fairly competent driver, I'd say gear selection (particularly on track) is my weakest skill of the suite.

My S5 will be the first non manual in 20 odd years of driving, so I doubt I'll ever go back. I'll be taking the S3 for a good cog stir on a proper Welsh mountain 'B' road to enjoy it for the last time.

 

I can't really comment on the 4.2 litre auto box but I can on the 3.0 Litre Sup unit, which is what I have.

I have NEVER owned an Auto box car up until 3 months ago when I took delivery of my S5.

Up to that point it was manual all the way and no way I was going for an auto box and taking away the 'involvement' of a manual box and selecting and holding the gears exactly as I wanted.

However ......

The S5 was available as S-tronic only and I wanted an S5 so was kinda pushed into a corner if I really wanted an S5.

So took one out on test drive and was amazed how good the auto box was.
The gear changes were literally instantaneous with zero lag and most amazingly no lunging from gear to gear which I suppose is a trait of auto boxes from old or perhaps none dual clutch boxes.

There is NO WAY I could ever match the speed, precision or smoothness of the changes with a manual and for a car like the S5 I was sold immediately on how the auto matched the car ie motorway miles muncher / sedate cruiser and ballistic missile when you want the full power experience.

I should also add that slipping the box into S mode takes away ANY lag for rapid / overtaking acceleration - there is some lag, although lag is probably the wrong description, there is no lag as such, in D the car just holds onto the higher gears for economy - which kinda makes sense really.

So ... 3 months how am I finding the auto ?

Love it - can't believe I am saying it but I have bonded tremendously well with it and don't miss the manual 'involvement' one bit. I just love the auto box to bits now .. and you do have pretty much 4 ways still to change gears: FOUR

Full auto d mode
Full auto S mode
Paddle shift manual
Up and down manually with the gear stick

So plenty of ways to keep the 'involvement' if you want it and if its good enough for F1 drivers I guess its good enough for me ha ha.

 

+1
Totally agree as I was of the same opinion (ie. I'll never have an auto)
The S Tronic is amazing. So much so, I may never go back to a manual.
Not really familiar with the differences between that and tiptronic though.

 

I'm sure that I would like it -- however, to squeeze out the most performance from the S5 (if you want to do that) then you really need the manual. Especially if you want to modify it. How much would you pay to shave off 0.8 secs off of your 0-60? Well, it's free (or actually cheaper) than the tip box if you simply go manual.

 

Well, it's free (or actually cheaper) than the tip box if you simply go manual.

Not even an option when you buy new S5 now, it's S-Tronic or you have to buy something else. Sure they used to do a manual, they may even still do it elsewhere in the world but not UK.

 

To further my discussion, I would argue that .....

Even if the manual car is faster on paper, I believe that human error would make it slower than someone driving the same car with an auto - double clutch s-tronic anyway.

The auto gear changes are just so rapid and seamless - no time is lost changing gear whatsoever.

Just point, press and hold on

 

I have a Tiptronic in my A5 s-line and I like it..a lot. It does a decent job of changing quickly most of the time. Every so often I can feel a slight delay due to it not being dual clutch, but that is rare, maybe once a drive. Tiptronic can do rapid double downshifts, but it won't (in my experience) do shift down two gears. I can click the paddle twice, and it'll shift down twice in a way that reminds me of moving the gear stick from say 4th to 2nd through the path (rather than straight from 4 to 2).

I get why Audi is going the way of automatic. I grew up in England and until I came to Canada I had only driven manual. However, what I'm realizing is that these decisions are driven by quality. Back in the day I could make a manual shift very quickly (fast hand-eye-foot coordination). However, as the driver my coordination is key. If my timing is off even a little bit then I'm putting extra stress on the clutch (and I'm reading more about clutch failures on manuals than Tiptronics). When an automatic gearbox, that has sychronization software, is controlling the application of gears it can control alignment of gear speed better than I can. Overall, this means the variables of stress are reduced. From a driving point of view it takes less focus to paddle shift, which frees up more brain-power for other important decisions.

Now that I'll have S-tronic on my RS5 I'm going to enjoy it even more. Double-clutching looks like a blinding invention and makes a lot of sense. Reading about gearshifts that are so fast no power is lost really brings home the advantages. And even though Tiptronic doesn't have dual clutches, it does have technology embedded that can control a better shift as well as work with the other car systems - such as comfort versus dynamic mode - to adjust how much you push the engine.

Obviously, when using semi-automatic shifting with my paddles I take some of that away. However, I'm a fan of feeling my drive. I like to feel the revs, and the forces against my seat and feet as a part of the driving experinece. And yes, whilst I don't get the feel of a lurch on a mis-timed manual gear change, I get to make micro adjustments through learning what engine sounds go with what what type of shifting action.

In short, go for it. I used to be manual-ist. Now I would choose Tiptronic and S-tronic over manual. And I've been driving Tiptronic for a couple of years now.

 

All great advice guys so thanks. I think it seems to be personal preference and driving style that dictates the choices.

I love my manual and the last day or so ive realised its not as annoying as I thought just at times it can be. I also think that with the slight notchyness in first to second im worrying about a big clutch blow out and a big bill. And i really cant be without my car for work etc.

I think the only thing to do is to test drive one and see how i like it. The price range im looking at is around a 2008 with decent miles so im not sure if drive select was available on that year?

I know the tiptronic isnt anywhere near as quick as the stronic but whats half a second between friends? ha most of what i pull up against on the road anyway are never going to keep up.

 

You're absolutely right. I would say that if the S5 came with the RS five transmission, I would have considered that. The only other thing is that if you were to ever consider a supercharger, absolutely go with the manual. The limiting factor on the durability of your car with regards to increased horsepower and torque will be the automatic transmission.

 

Well to be honest, if i was even considering the supercharger conversion, id just go buy a second hand RS5 haha is it still about 10-15k for the conversion?

 

I don't assume that people have the coin all at once to drop on a RS5 -- sometimes you may just want to leave the option open to upgrade the S5 down the road. That's what I did. I have certainly spent enough money on my car to have purchased a RS5 -- but didn't. I now have a car tailored to how I want that I wouldn't trade for a new RS5 :thumbsup:.

It depends on the blower. You could talk to Tony at PES -- you may be able to get the M90 blower installed under 10k -- and you can give Hatchman's mustang a run for his money (0-60 around 3.9-4.0 with a manual and I think -- but can't recall the source -- low 4's with the auto) :thumbsup:. The M90 is a great affordable blower. However, if you want the cutting edge blower, then I am sure that you will be spending $15,000+ on a new PES whipple, new APR eaton, or TTS blower.

 

Does the tiptronic change at all depending what year you buy? for example will the 2010 have had better software maybe?

 

Hatch--

That is a gorgeous mustang -- a Beast! Gotta say, I still have a soft spot for real american muscle. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

Thank you, very kind. Manuals are more fun, you know! :cheers::thumbsup:

 

Loving the 'Stang, amazing. I have always been a big fan of German performance cars (since the arrival of the BMW CSL in the 70's) but US muscle cars are in a different league in respect of their road presence. Whilst both nations cars have their pros and cons I'll always have a strong appreciation for both.great photos, thanks.

 

Nice rousch mustang in my building. Sorry for the crap photos.

 

An auto stick can be a blessing In traffic
A manual on an open road is nirvana
So the dilemma is which is more important to you personally. I'd rather endure the traffic for the privledge of actually DRIVING my car and not letting the ecu determine when and if to shift.

 

I 'used' to think like that

You can still get the same involvement and kick from auto / stronic, but in a slightly different way:

You anticipate an overtaking move on a B road of the slower car ahead, road clears, you spot an opportunity...

In the manual, you slip the gear stick into 2nd / 3rd say and gun it, preparing to change up gear as you make progress.

In the auto - you casually slip the auto into S mode with a satisfying nudge rearwards of the gear stick, the engine immediately blips down a couple of gears for you sensing you want more power and the engine note increases. When you are ready, gun it and experience immediate acceleration and a seamless gear change if required (many a time I hit the rev limiter in my manual TTS when really going for it - that issue is removed with the auto). Overtake move completed, casually nudge the stick back into D and wait for next opportunity to repeat :thumbsup:

It really is just as much fun with an auto Guys

 

Let me rephrase, IT AIN"T THE SAME ON THE TRACK, when approaching a turn at speed rev matching, heel and toe is not the same experience in an auto -no way to simulate the coordination of all those things happening at once whilst you try not to kill yourself

 

Yeah I can relate to that fair comment :thumbsup:

But I never take my cars on track nooooo way.

This is my fave track day which I've been on a few times and much prefer shredding other people's rubber and raggin other peoples cars

PalmerSport at Bedford Autodrome - The world's best corporate hospitality driving event

 

Best/ worst addiction

 

The issue with the TTS is that being a high pressure turbo, the boost does not hit until well over 2,000 rpm and when it does you can red line it very easily - nothing to do with experience or technique lol

I genuinely used to be the same always supporting manual over s-tronic but once you have it, it does win you over.

 

I genuinely used to be the same always supporting manual over s-tronic but once you have it, it does win you over.

No way, missus has 3.0TDI S-tronic (I drove it 1/2 a year every day) and I don't like it more than manual, even I forget Mechatronic problems.

 

ha ha ... its one of those subjects that people will always have different opinions on I guess - and funny I used to sit on the other side of the fence.

I did used to shudder when I heard of people having mechanical problems with some of the early auto boxes, but these appear to be less of an issue nowadays.

I personally like both manual and auto. The S5 came with auto only and I may never had sampled s-tronic otherwise so I am glad to be in a position now where I will consider it on future cars.

 

I went to the Nurburgring a couple of years back in my Stage 2+ Audi S3 (360bhp) and whilst I'd driven the track a thousand times on Forza / GT5 I was completely unprepared for what I was walking in to!

Firstly you're not in a VR car in a safe environment, and when you have your pride and joy sat under your back cheeks the grip of fear is REAL!

I could never have been prepared for:
> the gradient changes
> the rain sporadically falling round different parts of the track
> various high performance stripped out cars flying past (so you're trying to keep to a racing line but being equally courteous to look back as much as forward / shift out the way etc.)
> the fact your car that seems so capable on the average B road but is WHOLLY(!) substandard for prolonged race track use (e.g. 13 miles loop, hundreds of bends). My god I had it all, heat soak, brake fade, steering column judder, tyres overheating .... Mostly because I was over-driving the car, but then red mist / ego / ring madness sets in!

I have been a passenger in a RS6 avant with Allan McNish at Castle Combe, and in an R8 V10 with Jochi Kleint at the Goodwood Hill Climb and in both cars I've not really seen an 'issue' per say with the S-Tronic system in terms of track use. These passenger rides made me realise the shortcomings in my personal abilities (which are beyond remedy at my age!). I've always wondered if I had one less thing to think about, and more time with my hands on the wheel whether I might do a better job of track driving??? Shoudn't S-Tronic potentially flatter an average driver on track?

For those who really can hustle a car I fully understand the desire for full manual, I love manual myself, I just wish I was better at driving with it under pressure.

I'd always believed S-Tronic was quicker to accelerate than a mortal (is that just in launch control mode)??? If you look at 0-60 figures they seem quicker (S3 is 0.4s quicker to 60 with S-Tronic)

 

I am going to quote from Mind Driving by Stephen Haley:

"It is logical that non-drivers (in this case the teenagers in the back seat) imagine that the driving task to be what they see being done - steering, pedals, gears etc. Yet all experienced drivers realise that this leaves out a huge and crucial piece. Which is, of course, the invisible thinking part. So the "secret" to driving was a whole churning universe in my head that my two eager young cherubs knew nothing about"

So when considering manual vs. automatic of any shade, also consider how important to driving on the road (track excluded, naturally) twiddling a stick and pressing a pedal really is.

 

The sad part is that most companies are moving away from a manual, and while an s-tronic seems to make most happy, truth is if you have even an average amount of track time and any real desire to be really fast a manual gives that whole connected feeling a different level of involvement-something an auto stick could never duplicate ---for me anyhow.

 

Just a thought, but did F1 cars not do away with manual stick shift years ago?
As well as rally cars, touring cars etc etc.