Sounds great Cuppa. Almost too good to be true, but the results speak for themselves!

I only have one query, and unfortunately its not going to be a particularly interesting (nor popular on a car forum I suspect), and that is if anything can, or indeed should, be done about the excess carbon you are cleaning out during this process?

I am not very educated on this matter at all, but from my ignorant and naive mind, as I watching the videos of the cleaning I couldn't help but notice the large amounts of black smoke being pumped out of the exhausts. Is this contributing to a greater net gain in CO2? Is the fact that it is trapped in the car, mean that the car has not produced as much CO2 as it should of done had it not got trapped?

In any case, assuming that it does cause more pollutants, is there any thing that could be used during your cleaning process that could collect this build up safely? Obviously if the answer is no, then the whole issue is a moot point really..

Obviously I know discussing issues around 'being green' is hardly the forefront of people running S/RS Audi's, but unfortunately it is something that is happening. Any attempts, however small, to minimise it can't be a bad thing in my mind. You could also don a nice 'Green' badge for your companies website!

 

The black smoke makes good watching doesn't it, but is only in the worst cases and typically where a car is smoking anyway under acceleration due to incomplete burn of fuel (due to the carbon build up itself). So although the smoke output looks quite bad on the videos, typically this one off once done then allows the engine to run properly and not smoke on the journeys afterwards, hence lowering emissions from then on. Would be good to catch it all somehow.

In an ideal world we probably all ought to have solar panels using a similar process to that we're using (electrolysis) generating Hydrogen and Oxygen gas during the day for us to fill up our hydrogen fuelled cars each night ready for the next days journey. One day.

 

Hi - I was the member Cuppa mentioned from AITP and decided to get this done as internal 'Engine Cleaning' was something I was looking at doing for a while. There is another system out there which cleans via the fuel line - not as comprehensive in my opinion so didnt go for it after doing a bit of research into it. After chatting through details with Cuppa for a while and hearing how it cleans the engine much more thoroughly than the other system and for the price - I decided to give it a try. Now I was slightly dubious but after having this done from my personal opinion I definitely recommend it. Everything Cuppa mentions in his post is accurate and I experienced after the clean.

I have a V8 S5, with 22K on the clock, live in London and havent driven it alot over the last 6 months - it felt a little sluggish so I thought this has got to help and it certainly has. Cuppa passed my details on to the London area rep at AITP and I was called the next day to make an appointment that week. I was pleasantly surprised to get the Company's technical director turn up to do the work. Den was extremely knowledgable, very friendly and of course this gave me the opportunity to really quiz him in detail - which I did and he answered all my questions in depth and was open and honest. We had a very good conversation about the process and what I could expect. Its been a week since it was done.
The clean took 30 minutes, and here is what I noticed afterwards,

Before driving it and after the cleaning process -
The Engine note dropped and started to purr and the idle was much better the ticking sound from the engine almost disappeared. The engine seemed to be breathing much more freely, and on revving it the rasp from the exhaust was more pronounced - exactly how a V8 should sound. I havent noticed this before even from new. Not much black smoke at all came out of mine.

The Drive -
Pick up was much quicker and less throttle is needed to accelerate, it seems to rev quicker too. The smoothness of the drive is evident, the noise of the V8 is more noticeable and deep.

I was holding off posting this also as I wanted to see if the car would still be the same a week or more later. I am happy to report - It is, in all of the above areas described. The car is much more pleasurable to drive now, moreso than before.
As for MPG - I am monitoring it but to be honest the car drives so nice now I am driving it harder so I doubt my MPG will improve - this was not the main reason for getting it done so I will not report on that. As Cuppa has said this is not a benefit of the cleaning - neither do they claim it to be. My objective was to get a freer, cleaner engine making it run more efficiently and reduce any build up that may have occurred.

Conclusion -
In my humble opnion It does what is says on the tin and I personally noticed the differences and got what I expected. It has put a smile on my face when driving the car now. Everyone may experience something different - keep an open mind is all I would say. I think it will make a bigger difference on higher mileage cars but will on lower mileage ones too - depending on your driving style. For the price I think its worth doing, you have nothing to lose really. Give it a try.

 

cuppa... how much for cash, special price, cheap cheap, looky looky, nice price etc etc
what area do you cover?
I'd be up for this and happy to report to everyone else once complete. I'm looking for an improved mpg because even at very steady revs driving slow i'm really struggling on the mpg front!

 

No problem if you are in my area. As I posted above though, the process is not about 'improving' or 'adding' as this is when customers with already clean cars come away disappointed. This is about cleaning to recover and reclaim lost MPG, recovering lost throttle response, recovering a smoother quieter idle, etc. I'm very careful to manage expectations on this front.

It's all about cleaning which restores the engine to former glories, not adding or improving per se - so you have to go into it on that basis. Same as a car wash, if clean already then after the process the results/feel will be negligible, just as per a car wash, clean car in = no change. This is why anyone with low mileage or new car I tell to come back later.

 

If you visit my Facebook page below

https://www.facebook.com/F5ECC

and click on the notes section you will see entries for pricing, area covered and what's required to do the clean. Shortcuts below...

Pricing, my area covered, what's required: https://www.facebook.com/F5ECC/Notes

Reviews: https://www.facebook.com/F5ECC/Reviews

 

Hi Cuppa, awesome service your offering.

I spoke to an American company offering a simple solution like this but how effective is this compared to the stripping the engine and having it done that way?

Have you got any borcam pics of before and after from the company you got this off or anything? Have to admit Im too a bit sceptical about this process as can't really see it stripping carbon?

 

Bloody hell Cuppa your response wasn't quite what I was expecting (from what we'll now refer to as 'the other' thread) Even better to hear of other alternatives - and from such a respected member too - and so I wish you every success with your venture. I'm sure it's probably the right sort of time to give mine a good run through (although mines a big diesel not the V8 ) I'm also pleased to see you saying you'll only gain pretty much what you're losing... performance wise I don't particularly think mine is lacking (so not so expectant) and I'm very conscious to do long drives with plenty of 'leg stretching' to help the car breathe. What does really interest me is whether this will alleviate some of the crud in the EGR system or DPF... think that would be a clincher in my case. As much as I'm handy with a spanner I don't like taking stuff apart, that appears very happy running as it is, just to clean it. Hence I was curious if you'd stuck a boroscope in the EGR ducts or taken any ash/soot reads before and after. I notice Mr.China did an emissions read, and seeing the results of those really did seem to confirm all that was being said.

Couple of other questions. Any agents South Manchester and is this a mobile service? Had a quick peek at your Facebook page but personally I'm not a fan of businesses on Facebook (being an old fart) so much prefer looking at a nice polished, dedicated website. Either way all sounds extremely good

:thumbup:

 

Good luck with this Cuppa!

 

This was an interesting post to see for sure.

I have always been dubious of the fuel injection variety of cleaning that's name is evading memory at present. I mean what is different from your method to the £799 de-coke I can get done at AMD? Is there a reason to actually pay the hundreds over getting the hydrogen method? I'm guessing stripping the top off the engine gives it a 100% clean?

However I'd like to think one of the most known A5OC members wouldn't get involved in something that was awful for their car! It's a shame you don't quite cover Coventry as I am up there next weekend at the Ricoh arena and would consider it!

 

Lots of stuff to reply to and to do it all justice will do it later when back at base rather than sat here on my phone.

Suffice to say given the potential for an absolute slating over being a cheaper alternative that many will always claim 'is not a proper clean' I had to think carefully before buying the franchise, but results bear out the technology. The MOD would not have approved it for their road going equipment without due diligence.

I do have recent shots of a 1960s Capri 3.0 carburettor (a prized possession at Bicester Heritage Centre - used to be the medic car at Silverstone) which I did which was virtually spotless after the clean (see below). I say virtually with good cause, there was a tiny bit in the bottom left of the photo. However, at what on the photo looks like a 99+% result for between £99-£80 and thirty minutes long in a mobile service where we come to you without having to dismantle anything and without any harsh detergents seems a no brainer for me.

The alleged 'proper clean' which the hardcore Audi crew seem so obsessed with for between £600-750 at some places will indeed get a 100% clean of selected parts only, but takes hours, involves dismantling engine parts and only cleans the parts dismantled which 5 minutes after starting the car will already have a fine black layer all over them.

 

Look forward to a detailed reply as like I said Im very sceptical about this tbh.

If proven otherwise I will do it in a yearly basis but then saying that my car only had 9k on the clock and I drive it hard often but would still pay for this as a yearly service option without a doubt if im convinced.

I can't see it working properly like a strip and a clean as I can only see this being a "cheat" and skimming the edges so to speak. I spoke to my boss before after speaking to Matt about Terraclean who is a very clever man and whom also has a monster V8, C63AMG and said there is no way any of these methods will work with any decent effect but he has been wrong before believe it or not lol so Im happy to be re educated I just can't see what hydrogen can do here as apparently harsh chemicals are needed to remove even the slightest bit of baked carbon residue? You will see a benefit but would that benefit be as much if you got a complete strip and clean?

Nothing against you Cuppa at all but a personal rep based on something completely different to what we are talking here means nothing to me when it comes to being educated and parting with the hard earned lol

 

@Jamin_00 no offence taken and I don't expect the sceptics to be converted for a good while yet.

WRT the traditional methods of cleaning then they all rely on elbow grease and approaching it the same way you would clean an oven, i.e. not very sophisticated and ignoring the possibility of applying a bit of science.

The basic chemistry of complete combustion is all that is at work here given that the process produces both Hydrogen and Oxygen then a quick read through the below will explain what is at work...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combustion

 

The science is beyond me but they clean a central heating system without stripping it down. I know it's different but..............
If it's 90% there for 15% of the price and no risk of damage from the strip down...

 

This is my logic.

Its 1/7th the price of a full clean and still seems relatively effective,
My engine is under warranty when it goes bang... what have I got to lose!

 

Cuppa did mine - now mine is a low mileage and did not show a lot of black out the back but it did even out a rough spot I had, it felt better and I am seeing an slight improvement in mpg (still running the stats to get a long term figure)

For what it costs and having someone like cuppa who I trust doing it - its worth it even it is smooths the drive

 

Hi Cuppa,

You mention that the effect of carbon cleaning is down to how "dirty" the engine is and that it is down to driving style and milage etc.

Could you provide a little informtion as to what type of driving is likely to build up carbon in the engine to give me an idea of whether its something i would be likely to benefit from.

thanks

 

Sorry for the delay in replying, away at the minute.

Hi Cuppa,

You mention that the effect of carbon cleaning is down to how "dirty" the engine is and that it is down to driving style and milage etc.

Could you provide a little information as to what type of driving is likely to build up carbon in the engine to give me an idea of whether its something i would be likely to benefit from.

thanks

Sure thing Molle.

1) Low revs
2) short journeys
3) lots of stop-start journeys
4) idling

i.e. anything which means the engine doesn't get worked hard and hot. Cabs and buses/coaches are worst as they are sat idling and often short stop-start journeys at low MPH/revs in inner cities.

If you drive it with high/aggressive revs then the system gets hotter and the carbon doesn't build up as much.

Booking my car in for in about a months time once I've sorted out some other bits on it.

S5 V8 53k~ miles with an unknown engine history so no clue if it has been cleaned before. I've owned it since 43k~

Will report back after.

Will be good to get some detailed results from this one :thumbsup:

Is it the same as terraclean or along same lines then? I was disappointed with them, I had a3 2.0 tdi on 100k when done. Told him I get no smoke and no idle issues and runs well. He said its worthwhile (which I do believe it is worth while to clean built up carbon) and told me I would get improved mpg. I work in Portsmouth and live darlo, so mpg was a selling point, but peace of mind too. So got it done, no difference in mpg and he seemed surprised. I find it good to know that you state that it may not improve mpg. I say good I'm impressed, to me it's showing no bullshit. I know the problems with carbon build up on diesel engines, having had to pull on and clean tb/inlets before.

Would this clean inlet manifold/egr/turbo of carbon build up?

IF your car is suffering reduced MPG and IF the cause is carbon build up then yes the clean should recover/reclaim that MPG (notice the two IF words in there). Anyone GUARANTEEING improved MPG is leading you on in my opinion.

All a clean can do is exactly that. Clean.

IF (and it's always an IF) ANY aspect of your cars performance (noise, shakes, idling, hunting, MPG, emissions, flat spots, throttle response, sticking EGR/throttle body/swirl flaps) are affected from carbon build up then the clean will have an affect.

Of course if a mechanical aspect (swirl flaps for example or EGR valve) has seized completely or broken then no amount of cleaning will sort it.

Was called out for a 'dirty EGR valve' recently which actually turned out to be the EGR water cooler leaking coolant into the fuel.

The process we use will indeed get everywhere the gas can get to (turbo/inlet manifold/EGR), but it does need a flow to work...so, a clogged up DPF which has gone too far to be recovered will need replacing.

As long as you keep in mind CARBON CLEAN = RECOVER WHAT YOU HAVE LOST then you should be OK.

But there is no guarantee of improved anything as it all depends how dirty it is.

Have done 3 x B7 RS4s now and all were different to start with (some noisier than others and revving freer than others), but all got to the same end point.
Have done 2 x B8 S5s and same as above.

 

Someone correct me if I am wrong but as I understand it Molle carbon build up occurs regardless on the V8 engines.

It is a side effect of the FSI Direct Injection technology Audi use on them to increase fuel economy.

I am not however as to whether or not any style of driving causes it more or less.

Im sure Cuppa can probably expand on my response a bit

 

Booking my car in for in about a months time once I've sorted out some other bits on it.

S5 V8 53k~ miles with an unknown engine history so no clue if it has been cleaned before. I've owned it since 43k~

Will report back after.

 

Is it the same as terraclean or along same lines then? I was disappointed with them, I had a3 2.0 tdi on 100k when done. Told him I get no smoke and no idle issues and runs well. He said its worthwhile (which I do believe it is worth while to clean built up carbon) and told me I would get improved mpg. I work in Portsmouth and live darlo, so mpg was a selling point, but peace of mind too. So got it done, no difference in mpg and he seemed surprised. I find it good to know that you state that it may not improve mpg. I say good I'm impressed, to me it's showing no bullshit. I know the problems with carbon build up on diesel engines, having had to pull on and clean tb/inlets before.

Would this clean inlet manifold/egr/turbo of carbon build up?

 

I'll leave Cuppa to answer that one

 

@Cuppa, forgive my ignorance but can you explain how this is different from a BG induction service?

My car S5 was really sluggish and I was thinking maybe I needed a carbon clean at 70k miles on the car.

Did not want to spend the money for that and find out the car was still sluggish afterwards. My indie offered a BG induction service, thought the price was reasonable
figured why not since I was getting an oil change anyway.. Well after the induction service the car felt like a new S5 I had taken for a test drive, engine felt alive and ready to race. Poured in a can of BG44k in the gas tank and now the car practically drives itself.

So any more information you can give would be helpful I do like exploring options that are less costly and don't involve opening things up.

 

Hi Gurltech, only just spotted this, sorry for the late reply.

Don't know much about the BG process and the website doesn't seem to give specifics. Looks like the BG44k is a fuel additive so will clean wherever the fuel gets to.

Not sure what they are doing at the BG Induction service so wouldn't like to comment.

Our process we feed charged Hydrogen and Oxygen gas into the air intake. Our service is fully mobile so we come to you, where as the BG service looks like you go to them.

Wherever the Hydrogen and Oxygen gas can flow to the carbon deposits will react. I spotted on another forum a comment which went along the lines on 'I've seen the lumps of carbon stuck on and there is no way a gas is going to remove that'. If you google 'oxygen carbon burn' you can see that if you get carbon hot (e.g. with engine fully warmed up) and introduce an oxygen rich environment (like we are) then the carbon just ignites, e.g.....

https://youtu.be/vpNDuFwlrJA

 

Thanks for heading this far north Adrian. As I regularly run air system cleaner, diesel system cleaner and turbo cleaner through my A5, I suspected that the improvements following your treatment may be small. How wrong I was. It now picks up in Drive, like it used to in Sport. The usual hesitance in Drive that has been evident since I bought the car has completely disappeared. Top stuff.

 

Thanks. Was a pleasure meeting up yesterday and glad the car feels back to its best.

Was good to do a bit of VCDS coding and get your hidden menu unlocked and your footwell lighting up and running for you too

 

Hi Cuppa,

Really interesting stuff. I suppose it's a bit like cleaning the engine innards with superheated steam.

Now my car has reached 80K miles I've been seriously considering something like this. One question. Does the MOT emissions test indicate whether the engine needs a clean? For the last two years mine has come back with an advisory stating that "emissions are too low to measure". I have taken this to show that all is well, certainly the car is never driven slowly!

 

Hi Cuppa,

Really interesting stuff. I suppose it's a bit like cleaning the engine innards with superheated steam.

Just to clarify, its the Hydrogen and Oxygen chemically reacting with the carbon, no steam involved. Steam and detergents work by 'loosening' the lumps, not chemically reacting with it and altering it.

Now my car has reached 80K miles I've been seriously considering something like this. One question. Does the MOT emissions test indicate whether the engine needs a clean? For the last two years mine has come back with an advisory stating that "emissions are too low to measure". I have taken this to show that all is well, certainly the car is never driven slowly!

Emissions test can be a good indicator for much older cars without the cats or DPFs. If you drive it hard and rev it high then the combustion will be more complete so you'll get less carbon buildup, but with 80k on the clock I would think you'll have some buildup there, just not as much as perhaps someone who just trundles to the shops and back.

Either way if you are getting readings which are low then you know your cats/DPFs are doing their job.

 

Thanks Cuppa, chemistry was never my strongest subject.

Trundle, I don't even know the meaning of the word!

I think you've convinced me to get it done. :thumbsup:

 

Lol, in a weird freaky way I've come full circle. My first degree was Chemistry and here I am back doing something related. Coming in very handy now.

 

@Cuppa I got in contact today with an old friend who is in the hydro dipping and wrapping business. He then told me he is taking this same thing on for the Kent area. He is only 10mins from me at work

So I will be popping to him to have it done. For £100 its worth a shot to see

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

Was at Bicester Heritage Centre today where we already have approval for our process - working closely with Historit.

Feedback from the owner: 'The ride home was very interesting, definitely more power, much more responsive, but the main benefit was a smoother power band and tick over'

Source - https://www.facebook.com/F5ECC/posts/1488798061420555