I normally just ram a socket in there on a long extension. It normally has enough give to get on there.

 

Ah ok, I tried squeezing the grommet to see how much give is there and I get about 2 thirds of the bolt uncovered before it feels solid. I’m guessing that feel is the loom itself, there may be more give in that I just haven‘t been too rough yet. Will make a tea and see how that goes. Appreciate the help, cheers

 

That got her nice one.

 

Will put here rather than start a thread but there‘s a side by side of b8 with eibach vs stock I presume 17 year old stock and eibachs. looking at the lower forks I restored their part number ends in L where my old ended in K, is this a revision or for a totally different model? does anybody know is there a reason not to use them? they look and feel identical in every way I can see but you never know. I couldnt read the old ones with them on the car the aluminium top mounts however were exactly the same number 3.0tdi as the 1.8 petrol shown on right, that I did check beforehand.

 

To reply to your question "is it okay to replace 8K0 413 037/038 K with 8K0 413 037/038 L, I have checked an online parts listing that I use and trust when buying parts from VAG dealerships, and yes, the "K" version has vanished and "L" is the current versions for these cars.

One question for you, I noticed from looking at your pictures, that you used a very short spring compressor - which brand is that? I'm curious as I'm working on the front suspension of my 2011 S4 and when I went to compress the springs to change the top mounts and shim/thrust washer, I found that both my spring compressors, different types fouled the alloy top plate - so, I bought a pack of 50 M16 plain washers, M16 X 30 X 3, and used them at the other end of the spring compressors to "take up" the slack - that worked perfectly!

These cars can be quite challenging to work on the front suspension, I'm replacing all the front arms, but also felt the need to replace the top mounts as I'm hearing/feeling a slight noise when I encounter an unseen deep ridge or pothole that was not happening when this car was younger. I've now put that down to the bonded bush where the strut fork connects to the front lower front arms having aged - hardened and maybe compacted. Plus I had a "thing" about this car being built when M12 ball joints were fitted to the front lower front arm, so I'm also using that as an excuse to replace the ball joint and arm for the later M14 version. The other issue that I had was, when I drove it out of the garage for its MOT in late January this year, it logged an ABS wheel sensor fault, I quickly checked it with VCDS and found that it was the front RHS sensor, checked it impedance with a meter and found that it was shorted out! Due to time limitations etc plus any other "it is very cold" excuses, I just got the MOT garage to replace that ABS sensor. After discussing this on another VAG forum, ie I asked the question "why or what causes an ABS sensor to go short circuit?" I was advised that it could be due to a build up of corrosion on the rear face area of the wheel bearing! So, soon after putting some fault free miles on this car, I removed this newly fitted ABS sensor - a Bosch one that I had supplied to be fitted to that car, and discovered that the face of the sensor finger nearest the wheel bearing has now got score marks on it - so putting 2 and 2 together I'm thinking that this new ABS sensor will have a limited life span, so I really need to correct that while I'm replacing the suspension. So I ordered in a new hub/bearing assembly - an SKF branded one.

Moving forward maybe 6 months, I've finally got round to starting to correct all these issues with my 2011 S4, first plan was to remove the top and bottom pinch bolts as they seem to be the worst part of the job. RHS bottom pinch I eventually got out after forming bunds around the exposed threaded end and the pinch area and filling them with PB Blaster and leaving for a few days, then after working on that bottom pinch bolt a lot I used an induction heater on it a few times, still not budging, used a gas torch on it, ie just MAP gas, eventually it could be removed, top pinch bolt same treatment plus lots of action from an air hammer - no luck! Moved to the LHS, same processes, the lower pinch bolt eventually started to move so I worked away at it - then realised that it was not unscrewing - it had quietly snapped at the end of the threaded section!! So now big trouble, I drill a pilot hole then opened it up but could not reach far enough in to pass through the snapped end which is in the pinch area! So, I cut up the old snapped off pinch hole and drilled a pilot hole down through its head and fitted that back into the lower end of the knuckle, and used that as a guide to drill a pilot hole into the other end of the snapped off bolt section using a very long drill bit, that failed miserably as the resulting new pilot hole ended up entering the snapped off bolt part at an angle and then the drill tip broke off when it encountered the first hole that I had drilled from the outer end! So now I've got a damaged knuckle as the drill has moved across into the alloy! No chance to use extractor on it, game over for now! So now in a state of more than slight annoyance, and with already bought a lot of parts, I just thought, buggar this, and placed an order for 2 new knuckles from Audi - and another new SKF hub/bearing assembly etc. The LHS knuckle was not available, ie on back order from the supplier, so that placed another delay on this job, maybe another 10 days. So now I've got most of the new parts on the LHS, I also found while cleaning up the brake splash guards that they were badly perforated at 2 of the 4 fixing holes, so I bought a pair of new ones - oh, and I had noticed that there had been a slight bit of "wobble" coming from the brake pedal, and a bit of runout on the RHS brake disc, so I had already bought new discs, pad set and new guides kit!

All in all quite a lot more work and time and money than I had expected to be putting into this car.

PS, if anyone needs to remove the front brake splash guards from a car with Cobapress front knuckles, make sure that you are aware that one of the fixing screw hole is a through hole, and that that bolt will been seized not just a bit tight to remove - I only discovered that after I had snapped that bolt, knowing this I used PB Blaster on that same bolt on the other side and got it out intact.

Hopefully I'll find that taking the RHS top plate bolts out will easier after reading about your experience!

 

Cheers, they’re on now anyway and all seem ok. Bit annoyed with bilstein this time though and still have issues to solve which is not good for parts supposedly designed to be a straight swap, but that’s another story. I used inside the spring compressors for the rear which makes the job real easy. They’re just amtech single hook spring compressors on the front, I had to cut them down for a car I used to own because as you say they either hit the spring plate or top mount otherwise. Just about worked out this time too. I prefer the double hook type but they also clash on the spring once compressed. Don’t know if I’d recommend them because a bit unsafe but they worked to get the old shocks off. New ones are shorter so didn’t need compressing much, drivers side was more difficult for space. (Jacked hub till spring compressed. Attached compressor. Released jack slowly) It’s a whole rabbit hole trying to order suspension arms or bushes for these in m12. And more expensive once you find them. Plus 3 different track rod end types. The meyle arm set only comes in 75mm m14. Same with bush kits which unless I change the knuckle I’d have to buy all separately which adds up too much. I ended up ordering lemforder front lower arms and ball joints in m14. Track rod ends and drop links from them and upper arms from trw (same as existing) has took me the best part of a fortnight to get that far. Still don’t have a solution for the rear lower yet. Ordered a bush for it and may see if the ball joint has life when get into it. Got the shocks in the hard way I suppose without removing arms and undid the upper arm at the bush side to keep things simple. Will be easier to remove them to make changes with the front lower arm off once they arrive which I think is tomorrow. One thing about the top mounts is there’s nothing adjustable in the mount itself. The bonded bush that sits on top is the only thing that can wear really and I found the aftermarket ones I got seem a lower quality than the Audi ones. Rubber lifting on their seams from new. They have little rubber teeth on the topside and these had worn flat on the og ones. Ordered some *** wheel bearings for the front too so hopefully no issues with abs sensor too. My splashguards are rusted through on the screws too but the replacements I got look like they’re made of tinfoil so I lived with the slight rattle so far.

 

With the top mountings, I felt that I was in the best position to include replacing them as I had removed all the arms and upright/knuckle, also I felt the need to be able to examine the springs and paint over any rusting areas in a bid to stop ending up with a spring or two breaking. I didn't want or need to work in this area again while I own this car, so for the top mountings it now or never.

The splash guards, I bought via JEEP CHRYSLER ebay store as they were offering NTY brand for just over £36 a pair delivered, I did measure the thickness of them and they were slightly thicker material than the original Audi ones. I had before ordering in new ones, cut out a set of 16 "repair washers" from an aluminium drinks can, then spent too much time attacking them with a brass brush on a drill - then spotted the holes around 2 of the fixing points, so went for "plan B" - ie "replace them".

I is a bit annoying that the early cars, like your one were fitted with M12 front lower rear arm ball joints, as you say, either accept it or fit later uprights/knuckles. I believe that there is a trusted Germany based manufacturer of "good but cheaper" front uprights/knuckles, Autodoc sell them as well as some UK based sellers, ie roughly half the price that Audi charge!

 

Yeah I understand why you’d do it now. I swapped my top mounts too because it made it quicker for me to clean them and assemble onto the new shocks, then just straight swap. I got two fully built scrap shocks with top mounts from a much newer car for less than £40 from an ebay breaker. Just had to buy new top mount rubber disks which I did years back when swapping to cheap coilovers, just did the rears back then so they never got used and just had them lying around. Would you not just change the springs now youre in there? I know it‘s more money but you’re never going to want to do all this again. Cheers I’ll look for something similar on ebay but I'm thinking of looking for the vented rs5 dust shields now. I looked at knuckles all over the internet and familiarised myself with the difference between the two types but seeing as i don't have to yet (not tackled pinch bolts yet) I think I prefer to keep the audi branded parts for bits like these knuckles and arms, (so many pattern parts at all different prices) If it comes to it i‘ll probably buy updated ones from a breaker. While browsing for these, they all seem to come with the upper arms attached. Then they are charging the same as the pattern parts as if this is a bonus, not extra heartbreaking work. I’ve decided that as long as they don‘t have captive balljoints rebushing original parts would be my preferred method but I got too frustrated searching the internet for days and bought some new arms where needed. Another thing that puts me off about going the whole way with new knuckles is the updated rear lower arm has a bigger bush and balljoint but also has less aluminium around the bush itself. I couldn't decide which would clearly be the heavier duty setup. My arms didn’t come today but I will eventually have a hybrid setup with one m14 and one m12. I think there are some on the road already like this. Will have to see if I get accelerated wear on the m12 Then. One method I’ve seen to remove the pinch bolts was to cut the head off and use the nut and spacers on the thread to draw it out the wrong way. That and the tool designed for it look like the easiest ways I’ve seen. I‘ll probably try in that order when it comes to it. Yeah it has been an experience again, hydraulic or electro steering racks. Autodoc being difficult to choose unless you know which parts you have, finding out theres several almost identical looking choices for every part etc. Not in a rush to do any of this again either, nobody‘s going to do it for me though so needs must. Good luck with yours.

 

When you say "hybrid" do you mean M12 front lower rear arms and knuckle and M14 front lower front arms and ball joints, it was the front lower rear arms and knuckles that got changed first from M12 to M14, then a few years later the front lower from arms and their ball joints got changed from M12 to M14.

My 2011 S4 has shockingly low mileage and so the springs are still looking good, I don't think that there is anyone supplying exactly the correct springs for B8 Audi S4 the springs on them are entirely different to the S-Line offering, same for dampers I'm afraid.

The main reason why breakers will be selling knuckles complete with upper arms will down to them not being silly enough to try to remove the top pinch bolts. Once I've completed refreshing the front suspension, I'll probably attempt to remove the top pinch bolts from the removed knuckles. I'd think that it is down to "location" if the pinch bolts can be removed, that will be why, from what I'm hearing, that lots of garages will not touch this area of these cars. There is a very expensive tool that Audi dealerships probably have so that they can remove the top pinch bolts quickly and with a high success rate. I almost dived in and bought a bespoke tool from a tool manufacturer abroad, but even it got only a "warm" review. I had already bought the kit that you use with an air hammer, knocking the head off and then drawing the bolt out using a nut or maybe even a "joining nut" probably only works if you have already managed to get it moving enough to have a slight space in front of the bolt head, for cases where the head gets snapped off, then I'd be very surprised if there was any chance of drawing the remains out using nut and spacers etc, plus you'd need to be careful to fit spacers in the 2 pinch slots or risk snapping the knuckle.

A partner in a VAG Indie that runs a forum says that they just have an arrangement with a local engineering works who they hand the knuckle complete with arms to and get intact bare knuckle back - for a fixed price.

They are just slightly challenging cars to work sometimes, keeps me out of mischief I suppose and I don't need to try to work out where to spend my money, my wife is quite understanding - I think, but this messing around with my S4 has taken a lot longer than I'd own up to!

I hope that you get your jobs finished soon, the weather is getting colder and my wife's 2015 Polo 1.2TSI 110PS SEL is shouting out for a service, but my car is blocking the double garage still - the end is in sight, I think.

 

Yeah that will be what I have if I can defeat the pinch bolts by the sound of it. I’m trying to stay positive here ha. In for a nightmare I guess but I’d expect nothing less at this stage. I know well thats why they do it but some of the prices are a bit rich seeing as they’re off a scrapper and you could destroy them getting prepped. I don’t want to be buying tools to use once anymore they just get in the way but aometimes is the only way. It’ll get done one way or another. I need to find someone after this to check my new clutch disk for runout and center the clutch on the flywheel for fitting. Been reading up on that job whenever have the chance and that‘s the one I'm really dreading.

 

Going back to the the original subject/title of this thread, after reading that, I felt another gloomy cloud appearing over my head, so I had a look at that side as I haven't started working on that side yet, and discovered that the protecting boot over the electronics box wiring does partially block access to that bolt, so I read my official Audi workshop manual for these cars "remove the 3 screws from the electronics box lid" - no further instruction although maybe lifting the cover away does take the protective boot away from that bolt - time will tell.

Oh, and Audi mandates that these 4 top platform bolts get tightened in a specific order, pity I didn't know that when fitting the LHS damper stuff back on the car, but I did tighten the 2 back bolts - the ones that pass through a locating bush in the car, first and then the other 2, so maybe I just got lucky!

Edit:- the upper arms on my 2011 car were also TRW, the lower ones are marked as Defco - but I couldn't find any info on a car parts company of that name, but, they also had the same crest/shield on them that Lemforder do.

 

Yeah I knew that part but I still don’t know what the order is. The manual I have has a habit of circular references that go to pages I either don’t have or back on themselves. Like for x refer to page 10 in red. Click it page 10 refers back to the original statement. I have the torques as 40 plus 90° replace bolts. My new bolts for everything are coming with my arms and balljoints etc. So I did 40+90 with the old ones. I dont use the car every day and have only done about 10 careful miles since replacing all shocks and springs just to get a feel of it. To reassemble I put the first two top bolts nearest the road in several threads which allowed the whole strut a better angle for the bottom fork to be put back on easier. I then made sure the rear ones with the nipple on were located and hand tightened as far as I could. Then I tightened all of them until they were just touching, lined them up underneath to the clean paint marks where the old one used to be. With the two of these, the wider apart two lined up covering the clean paint they’re as close as I’ll get them by eye I then snugged them and then torqued like a wheel going opposites. They’re coming off again to remove the front factory bump stops now I‘ve seen how it sits.so if you know the order let me know for when I do it properly. Bilstein have ignored email for shock specific information going on two weeks. No dust boots or bumpstops supplied, no specific referral to either in the instructions for the fronts. For rears it says where not supplied use existing. As the bump stops hold the dust boot and provide additional support in the top mounts I tried to use them first. Rear had to be cut down to their minimum and aftermarket dustboots I had added. Front looks like will be the same situation. I left an elastic band on the strut at the point where the external bump stop would bottom out. The way it sits now the dust boot is level with the band so am pretty much at no travel with just pro kit springs. it feels fine but I can’t throw it around yet until all the arms and bolts are replaced and it’s been for tracking.

 

For the three bolts is that to remove the ecu box? I‘ve seen my ecu taken out twice and it didnt seem that difficult but I didn’t pay close attention to what was happening. I kind of fear the computer in this car, I thought I’d bought old enough for it to not be too bad but I had and have a lot to learn.

 

Well I did remove the cover from the "electronics box" seeing as Audi mentioned needing to do this, maybe it allowed a millimetre or so of extra room to get onto the inner rear bolt.

The order for tightening the suspension top platform 4 bolts is - inner rear, inner front, outer rear and outer front. 40Nm + 90deg.

 

So you got it done then, fairplay. Yeah standard Audi procedure seems to be dismantle the whole car for most jobs so I’m not surprised. Did the grommet stay in the base of the box but you could lift it slightly? Still waiting for delivery here and raining all day so cars been standing. Cheers for that order, good to know. I wonder why the order is that way, strongest points first maybe? I went inner front, outer rear, inner rear (the awkward thread starter) outer front. But it was a total guess, wasnt too worried about damaging threads or heads at 40nm. just that it lined up and there were no gaps between mount and body

 

No the box was still solidly fixed to the car, I could see 2 fixing screws on the firewall side but wasn't brave enough to try to reach them only to find the wiring harness still kept the box in the same place.

One thing that I have worked out, as well as yes you need to strip the car down a lot before starting on the area you need to , was that if you silly enough to work on the struts/front dampers by having them lying flat on the floor, the bump stop desperately wants to escape from where it needs to be, for the LHS that left me finding today that the damper etc was back on the car, and its top bump stop was not fully in place. I sorted that out by slipping a thinnish bit of plywood with a slot cut in to clear the damper piston, under the protector tube that is below the bump stop, then slowly jacking the suspension up from below until the bump stop was fully back in place. For the second damper etc, I got my B&D Workmate out and held the damper plus spring etc in that vertically , that worked well both for having the bump stop in place and keeping the spring in the exact correct position in both the bottom plate cushion and the top plate cushion.

Edit:- I was worried that getting the bolt beside the electronics box into its thread cleanly, so initially planned to suspend the top plate on the end of the threads of the 3 other bolts, and work away with that 4th bolt to get the bolt into the threads, in the end that didn't seem to be as useful a way of doing it, so I just tipped up the 3 other bolts and found that the 4th bolt could be dropped straight into its threads first time.

 

What does this site have against paragraphs? It deletes all mine and gives a wall of text. How did you format the last one so we dont look like a maniac found a keyboard? That and I’ve found you can‘t say the equivalent of sunburnt neck. Or a wheel bearing make which is slang for another word ha. Ah ok, so is there a seperate cradle to hold the ecu still or is that just held in place by moulding on the lid? I get you, if it’s not broken don’t try and dismantle it is solid thinking. I don’t think the people who work on these for a living do everything by the book but you‘d need experience I don’t have to know which bits you can improvise. I put the bump stops/splash guards on the floor (towel) then pressed the top mounts onto them. They‘re quite tight to get in I noticed too. And where they sit in the mount they had a crust to remove that looked like limescale (aluminium corrosion?) Audi have a note on relocating them when they fall out before selling I think. Both times I’ve changed the rears they were just floating. I assembled mine with them stood up between my knees, bit awkward but I located the bottom of the spring on the stop. placed the top mounts on and rotated them till I felt them stop then had a quick look and feel to make sure on the top stops before top rubber mount and tightening. I put a bit of silicone grease on the spring pads to try keep water out. I forgot to say while your in there check your drains, you probably know but right behind the lower spring support theres a little channel in the bodywork for rain to drain away. Every 6 months to a year mine are packed full of gravel and dirt. they‘re awkward to clean out but worth doing before winter. I found getting that one in again a bit tricky. I used the socket and extension but by hand not on the ratchet, the grommet kept trying to squeeze between the nut and washer and obviously have to be 100% no crossed threads.

 

Also I left the wheel arch liners in which although make it awkward to get the top mounts out and in, they overlap the top mount a bit and take a some of the weight off your right arm when you’re trying to hold the shock assembly in place at arms length and pick up and get the first couple of bolts started into the top mount left handed. Something else I noticed on assembly, both with the Bilstein and the stock is the threaded part, on the top of the piston, is smaller than the hole in the rubber top mount by about 1-2mm all around, the washers don‘t touch the sides of the rubber top mount so theres nothing to hold it dead centre. I was thinking a mm or two change one end has to change the other to a degree? I thought about adding a washer to center it but it didn’t come with one/maybe a shear risk to add one. Then I tried to find something to take up the gap around the socket to hold it centred for final tightening. None worked out so I figured it’ll be right and did up.

 

Yes, F - A - G might be a quality wheel bearing brand, but complete rubbish for quoting on forums

Drains, did you mean the drains in the top plates, if so, yes I noticed lots of small gravel on the top and sort of accidentally found drain holes under them.

The ECU is held firmly in a cradle, the lid was tricky to remove, but it was only a sticky area of the top insulation that was sticking to the wiring below.

For a moment, in desperation, I considered spraying the end of the bump stop with something useful - but then dismissed that idea as it would have made pushing it back into position easy - and even easier for it to escape again!

I used a small trolley jack with a block of wood that fitted tightly into the strut fork, to get the damper etc up to height and support it - okay it seemed keen to escape if given a chance, but doing that worked well enough to help me get 3 of the bolts engaged in their threaded holes. So maybe I'm having issues daring to start new paragraphs! So I'll roll the remainder of this posting into one this paragraph! That is not good enough for Bilstein using a smaller diameter piston rod and not supplying adaptor sleeves etc in the kit. I've not had much time to complete this work on my S4 so today I got my wife to sit in the car with the engine running and her foot on the brake pedal, so that I could torque the drive shaft bolts up to 200Nm and the add in an extra 180 degrees using a long 3/4 " breaker bar and matching 3/4 " hex bit - and a 4 foot length of alloy scaffolding pole for the final few degrees if needed. Next job is to measure the disc runout on both sides before fitting the wheels and getting it onto 4 wooden ramps so that I can start to do the final tightening of the suspension bolts, or at least their nuts. Then putting any piping and wiring back into its clips, fitting the 2 side heat shields and then the lower brace - and all the plastic covers that have been removed and the wheel arch liners, I might get to doing that at the weekend!

 

On second thoughts, I think that you are/were referring to different water drains located on the body behind where the spring lower platform ends up - I better check up on that, thanks for that tip!

 

Ah I suppose these sites have to cover their backs but it does make me laugh, we’re all adults. I think the problem was with the autodoc rubber top mounts rather than bilstein but I’m not impressed with either at the moment. II can‘t find the order anywhere to confirm the make as I got them so long ago. Taking the old shocks to the tip I noticed the audi rubber top mounts do fit better to the shock piston with less room for it to move off center. The pistons themselves on both shocks were exactly the same, checked with calipers. A jack may have been an easier way to support the assembly but I didn’t want to risk any paint chipping off the shocks where they sat on the jack so I decided to struggle by hand. Wasn't that bad just a bit awkward. No, paragraphs are good, hopefully mine work now. I was just bringing the words in with space for each one and not pressing enter To add gaps. Then getting a wall of text i find hard to even proof read on a phone. I‘m hoping the milwaukee can crack my driveshaft nuts and I’ll have to get another torque wrench to do them back up as mine tops out before 200nm. I can get help on weekends for doing them back up. Easier if I can get it all done first then just have someone sit on the brakes to torque up. Never checked runout myself, is that just like a cnc looking ball on a probe that mounts to your hub? Figured I’d feel it if it were concerning. Good to be thorough though. I have loads of new wheel arch liner clips as I’ve been thinking about making some from resin impregnated kevlar, tougher,lighter and waterproof so it doesn‘t hold road dirt and water against the body. I have some carbon rolls to practice building some smaller pieces first as kevlar is supposed to be harder to cut and work. Will get around to it one day. Which heat shields did you need to remove, and why the brace had to come off? sure I read somewhere that to remove any of the under bracing the car should not be on its wheels. I’ll be doing things in a similar way. I have two plastic ramps from machine mart which I drive the front up which give me I think 130-200mm extra at the front then jack the back up and put on stacks of cut scaffold board. I’m hoping this will be enough room to achieve the torques needed. Yes the drains I mean are in the body as you said at the end there. They pinch in right behind the shock and this is where they get blocked. At best rust at worst it can track inside under the carpets and ends up under the rear footwell carpets. Took me a year to solve the issue. Found it one morning when a small bag of shopping splashed as I put it down behind my seat. Que months of steamed windows and searching with a wet vac. The foam underlay is like a sponge so it takes ages to resolve. Still waiting on my parts here otherwise ffs.

 

No, didn’t work, stole all my paragraphs again. I did try putting gaps between paragraphs that time.

 

Another thing I’m not 100% on yet is how these cars are tracked. If everything is torqued up to spec and single use bolts. If I crank everything to where its supposed to be, how do they track the car without undoing some of the work and needing new bolts? Hopefully this is a dumb question with a simple answer?

 

I think that the sad reality is “reusing the stretch bolts”. Side heat shields need to be removed to remove/fit the lower rear arm inner bolts - and removing the brace makes that possible, though the brace bolts should get replaced. This website or its forum has become terrible use!

 

Disc runout, I could feel “something” through the brake pedal recently so bought a cheap kit and found the RHS front disc had “enough” runout to prompt replacing the front discs and so pads, then bought a better quality DTI (used Baty) for the next check after replacing the hubs, bearings and discs.