Audi A5 Forum & Audi S5 Forum banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone know the optimum rpm to change from 1st to 2nd in the Audi S5? The gear shift suggestor always suggests to change to 2nd gear pretty early but in order to shift to 2nd early I need to bring out the clutch pretty slowly (to prevent jerkiness) and I was wondering if this will wear out the clutch very quickly or if its ok.

Any info or tips will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,046 Posts
+1

The gear indicator is not a shift indicator. It teklls you what gear you should be in for best economy. Thus, if you are accelerating, it goes away and as you steady your spee, it shows the highest gear recommended for your current speed.

Change when you feel it's right, and that depends on how fast you want to go! Smoothness is in the left and right-foot balance, and can be achieved at any revs.

When in no hurry, I just get the car rolling in 1st and drop straight to second and use the low end torque to burble me along (if on a slight downhill incline, I start in second).

When a bit more spirited, I run the revs up in 1st to probably about 3.5k (guessing coz I'm not looking) and injoy the sound of the V8 :D

When I'm burning of the burberry cap-wearing dope next to me in the Ford Focus at the lights, I give it the cahooners and wrap the revs over 5k and bang the clutch out in second to get the tyres to 'chirp' for fun, which is far from smooth!

I'm guessing you've driven Autos mostly?

Cheers.:cheers:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
324 Posts
Ian is right, it's about finding your friction point and balancing the revs with the release from there on. A slow meshing of the gears will eventually cause slightly quicker wear on your clutch plate than a quicker release. However the opposite of dropping the clutch can cause added wear due to higher impact loads. In short a clutch by its very nature is designed to wear, just like all moving parts and its up to you how much abuse you put it through.

Don't release really slowly by that I mean more than a second (ish) after the friction point is reached and when clutch starts to engage. Also don't release the clutch really quickly, effectively an immeadiate engagement ( this will never be a smooth gear change ) Somewhere in the happy middle of these two you will find what is most "comfortable".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,046 Posts
...In fact, there's only wear on the clutch where there's a difference in speed between engine and drive-train. This is why your right foot is important in getting the revs right for the next gear, both up and down the 'box. if when shifting up, you lift your right foot and don't re apply revs, you will have a notchy upshift as the engine (which has slowed down further than required for the next gear) is speeded up by the drive-train. So, whe up-shifting, it's necessary to lift off the throttle momentarily and then re-apply enough throttle to 'pick-up' in the next gear... get this balance right and you can change as slowly or quickly as you wish without any 'jerk'.

Note, it's possible to upshift (and downshift) without the clutch, if you time the engagement of the next gear to the perfect revs. However, don't try this with your own car, only with demonstrators, courtesy cars and hire-cars!

PS... I hope this is not patronising? ...to those who have always driven manuals, this should be second nature.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Man you guys are great. Thank you very much for the tips.
I do notice that when upshifting I tend to release the accelerator, put down the clutch, shift to 2nd, bring up the clutch up to friction point and smoothly release, then when the clutch is out I tend to go into the accelerator again. I'm going to practice to give it some gas while I'm releasing the clutch. What makes me get off the gas for a while is that i'm not sure if i'll have to reduce the speed or stop right after shifting to 2nd since I'm in the city and there's not too many open long roads. What I'll try to do is shift earlier to 2nd gear while giving it some gas and that way I won't be going too fast by the time I get to 2nd gear.

Thanks once again,

Dan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Oh I meant to ask you guys. In order to make the change of gear smoother do you start adding the gas just as your releasing the clutch or you first release the clutch to the friction point and start adding the gas? I know this is probably second nature for you guys and its hard to make you describe what you do naturally, but its worth asking.

Thanks!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,046 Posts
Oh I meant to ask you guys. In order to make the change of gear smoother do you start adding the gas just as your releasing the clutch or you first release the clutch to the friction point and start adding the gas? I know this is probably second nature for you guys and its hard to make you describe what you do naturally, but its worth asking.

Thanks!!

...as you say, it's difficult to describe, but the revs are fed in as the clutch bites, with a tiny bit of clutch slip to smooth the change.

:thumbsup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
267 Posts
I find the most smoothest change from gears 1, 2 to 3 is by releasing the clutch past the biting point, just as its about to come off the clutch make sure your right foots back on accelartor smoothly again.

Releasing the clutch fast in lower gears just doesnt seem to work well in the s5, a nice soft release works much better.

I drove a 2.0T A4 not long ago.. completely different clutch control. I had a type-r before the s5, again completely different clutch control. Took me about a month to perfect the s5. Now and then i still have a few jerky changes shiftng from 1 and 2 at low RPM's, but in due time you will master it. The key for me was a slower release from the clutch pedal, and making sure your foot goes on the gas a little bit before the clutch is completely released.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
I find the most smoothest change from gears 1, 2 to 3 is by releasing the clutch past the biting point, just as its about to come off the clutch make sure your right foots back on accelartor smoothly again.

Releasing the clutch fast in lower gears just doesnt seem to work well in the s5, a nice soft release works much better.

I drove a 2.0T A4 not long ago.. completely different clutch control. I had a type-r before the s5, again completely different clutch control. Took me about a month to perfect the s5. Now and then i still have a few jerky changes shiftng from 1 and 2 at low RPM's, but in due time you will master it. The key for me was a slower release from the clutch pedal, and making sure your foot goes on the gas a little bit before the clutch is completely released.
That was my experience with the S5 as well. It took me about a week to make reasonably good gear changes but at least a full month to get used to it make very smooth gear changes. Of all the manual cars I've owned this one took the longest to get used to. My wife's Mini Cooper S took me about 20 minutes or less to get used to... It's so easy to drive.

But, having said that it's very satisfying to learn how to have precise control over a vehicle, even if it doesn't happen instantly. When the S5 was first released I read criticism from people who went on a test drive and compared it to their own vehicle, which is ridiculous. You always have to adapt if you're coming from a different manufacturer.

I too shift into second very early sometimes in city driving. I even start out in 2nd if making a rolling stop or just barely moving.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
324 Posts
Just because we can I start in second from the standstill a bit. Same as starting in first just need to give it a little more gas to keep the engine happy as you release the clutch
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
I don't know why this car is tricky to shift, but I agree with what others have said about the clutch release seeming to need to go through two phases, initial bite and slow let out of the clutch, then, as you continue to squeeze on more throttle, let the clutch out the rest of the way. Letting out quickly or in one continous sweep doesn't work well.

One thing that makes all this challenging is that the engine holds revs when you clutch in for about a half second, then the needle dives down the tacho. I've noticed this when coming to a stop, I'll come down to about 1,000 RPM, clutch in, the revs pop up to 1100 and hang there for a split second, then the revs come back to idle. So, unless you have the perfect amount of throttle ready, it will not be smooth as you declutch while the tach needle is on its way down, trying to catch it at the right point.

Let's say you start in first gear and take it up to 3,000 RPM, get up to 25 mph or so then select second, where the engine wants to be at around 2,000 RPM. Clutch in, lift off throttle - oops, should have kept some more throttle on, the tach needle hangs at 3K for half a second then dives down, clutch out - whoops too late, caught it at 1500 RPM, drive train spins up the engine the extra 500. Damn, yet another clumsy shift!

I'll get it some day. I guess if there weren't something to work on, the driving experience would be less interesting.

db
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,046 Posts
I don't know why this car is tricky to shift, but I agree with what others have said about the clutch release seeming to need to go through two phases, initial bite and slow let out of the clutch, then, as you continue to squeeze on more throttle, let the clutch out the rest of the way. Letting out quickly or in one continous sweep doesn't work well.

One thing that makes all this challenging is that the engine holds revs when you clutch in for about a half second, then the needle dives down the tacho. I've noticed this when coming to a stop, I'll come down to about 1,000 RPM, clutch in, the revs pop up to 1100 and hang there for a split second, then the revs come back to idle. So, unless you have the perfect amount of throttle ready, it will not be smooth as you declutch while the tach needle is on its way down, trying to catch it at the right point.

Let's say you start in first gear and take it up to 3,000 RPM, get up to 25 mph or so then select second, where the engine wants to be at around 2,000 RPM. Clutch in, lift off throttle - oops, should have kept some more throttle on, the tach needle hangs at 3K for half a second then dives down, clutch out - whoops too late, caught it at 1500 RPM, drive train spins up the engine the extra 500. Damn, yet another clumsy shift!

I'll get it some day. I guess if there weren't something to work on, the driving experience would be less interesting.

db
...Well, you can have a heavy, sluggish V8 that is slow to rev up and down, or a light-weight free-revving sporty V8 that responds quickly both up and down to throttle input!

...all performance engines are a bit like this to drive. However, I would say that the throttle response (electronic) is a bit too non-linear, so a tiny input give a large throttle response... the electronics could be better here and I think it would be easier to drive slowly... even perhaps change maps at low speed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
324 Posts
But Ian, how many of us really drive slowly all the time. I would love to say that I do all the time but it would be a lie. I think we all enjoy our cars too much. Those that do drive slowly and responsibly all the time probably arn't really interested in the car itself and hence probably are not on this forum.

Course, I could be wrong...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
267 Posts
I thought i was the only one having trouble with smooth changes. This is my second day with the car. I traded my tiptronic S5 for a manual. The manual seems so much faster. The manual that i got just has around 400miles less but seems so damn quick. Maybe it has been carbon cleaned idk but damn...
 

Attachments

1 - 15 of 15 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top