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S5 modifications - APS, UK, 15th Feb

22856 Views 168 Replies 33 Participants Last post by  Wolfman
10
All, a number of S5 owners met at the premises of APS in Brackley, Northants on Friday to undertake some of the more popular modifications bing talked about on this forum. Here's a few initial details - I'll post a pictorial diary of the day and fellow owner Ian, sound recordist extraordinaire, has some 'before and after' sound files which clearly show the (marked) difference between stock and Milltek resonated exhaust. To answer the burning question - 'is it worth it and should I wait for a non-res version' - 'YES' and 'NO'. More details later.

Background to the day

As many of you will know, Ian and I had separately approached APS for details and pricing on a series of mods (primarily exhaust and suspension/track). Ian pulled it together via another thread and APS arranged a day for a number of owners to meet and either have the mods performed, or simply view the work in progress and its results. Hence, we met at APS's premises in Brackley, Northants this last Friday 15th.

APS.

Have to spend a few lines commending this outfit. Their premises are immaculate (as you'll see from the pics), their customer service and communication (through partner, Ed Jackson) is beyond reproach and their engineers are not only damn good blokes but at the top of their game. They work in pairs on each car, methodically assisting each other and checking each stage of the work. Gained huge comfort in watching the way they handled my prized possesion. They have a wealth of experience with a variety of VAG models and this is apparent in conversation with them. You'll also find it hard to beet their keen pricing!

The cars

On the day, three cars were to be modified, these being:
  • Mine (Meteor Grey), in for exhaust, spacers, springs and Sportec pedals
  • Ian's (Phantom Black) in for the same less pedals, although having seen them, quickly added to his list :)
  • Colli's (Ibis White), intended to have re-map, spacers springs and pedals done, with exhaust next week. As it turned out, springs hadn't arrived so he'll be back for those with the exhaust.
We were also joined by Graham and his meteor S5 who was interested in seeing the results, and Neil from Honda's F1 operation round the corner who's had a loaded black S5 for a few months and joined us to see the work taking place.

So, at one point, close to £250K's worth of S5 all parked up - quite a sight (and sound!).....

The mods - subjective impressions

In summary, the mods make a huge difference to the car and make it, in my opinion, the type of car we hoped Audi would make. Aesthetically, the pictures speak for themselves with the car now possessing a totally aggressive stance - the word that springs to mind is 'menacing'. The Milltek slash-cut exhaust looks tremendous, well-suited to the car and avoiding the Max Power look by virtue of its careful integration with the lines of the rear valance. It could be said that for this benefit alone, the mods are worth the money but what of the drive?

When my car was initially lowered from the ramp and the engine fired-up, I have to say my heart sank and Ian's face fell. At idle, the exhaust note was noticeably more subdued - we both started to wonder if we had done/were about to do the right thing. Then I sat in the car and revved it up. OMG. The sound of the car, most particularly from inside had changed beyond recognition. From the standard burble, the note had changed to a deep but hard-edged growl (check out Ian's comparative sound files for confirmation of this). The car was taken out by Ed for a quick shakedown and upon return, I went out for a quick blast up and down the A43. I didn't stop smiling. Under load, the exhaust just bellow - unmistakably a V8 sound but more akin to a race car. No need to put the back seats down now to get the benefit! ;) With the window down, it was apparent that the sound that passers-by are subjected too is no less arresting - the car just howls its intent :eek:

The ride quality is, as you'd expect, notably firmer and certainly in the UK, it's fair to say that 90% of the time, you'll be completely aware that the car is riding on stiffer springs. That said, it's part of the miraculous metamorphosis of the car from GT to hard-edged sports saloon and totally in keeping. Any trade-off in terms of ride comfort (and there is some) is more than balanced by the car's poise on the road and enhanced cornering ability - roundabouts on the A43 were despatched in one seamless movement, body-roll all but banished and the car still largely unaffected by mid-corner road surface imperfections although on one or two occasions, I have sensed it skip slightly as it encounters bumps and holes, where the previous set-up would have been more tolerant.

Regarding the spacers - can't honestly say I notice any negative impact on steering feel - although there's a sense of additional weight at low speeds. Steering accuracy is unaffected as speeds increase. Both Ian and I (and I think Colli?) decided on aesthetic grounds to go with front spacers as well as rears and whilst we each harboured some concerns about the possible effects on steering geometry, this seem to have been misplaced. We'll keep an eye on the front tyres for any signs of uneven wear, but first impressions are comforting.

That's it for now - in the office today and have to do some proper work - will post some more pics in follow-on posts and more later from I and others.....

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Thanks Ess5ive
The only thing i would like is the exhaust
Is it best to ask audi?
Did i hear on this forum that usa can have exhaust fitted at audi dealerships?
That's awesome Ian! I didn't even see you mention (or maybe you didn't) that they were there. If this is a UK mag, keep us (or rather U.S.) in the loop as to when it comes out.
'
Hey Mr G. I perhaps did mention it, but didn't make a big splash beforehand... just in case!

I have had confirmation that the article will be in the April edition of Audi Driver magazine... so guys... order yours (or better still - subscribe) now!

Famous at last!
'
Here's the sound comparison on youtube... after learning how to use Windows Movie Maker!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsIJPIyrgmw

The sound was recorded at high quality with a reference microphone using exactly the same set-up and settings, so thay are as close as you will get to a fair comparison. The measurement shows the Milltek to be 20% louder under these conditions... another point to make is that this is immediately after fitting... these exhaust get slightly louder and even more musical after a few weeks

The sound comparison free-revving is only half the story... under load and at higher revs, these things really bark! I will try to get some in-car sounds done this week using the same equipment.

Ian.
Hi Ian,

Do you think that the deeper sound comes from the fact that there is no crossover box, hence only half the pulse frequency per rear box? If that's the case then the idea of just changing the back boxes as a halfway measure (slightly quieter) on my car will won't give it the deep sound. Have you got spectral info on your recordings?
any of you local suspects fancy the track day at mallory on may 17 th,,come on ess 5 ,av you got the minerals?
failing that was thinkin of a karting session for the s5 boys and associates at a convienient venue..?? any thoughts
any of you local suspects fancy the track day at mallory on may 17 th,,come on ess 5 ,av you got the minerals?
failing that was thinkin of a karting session for the s5 boys and associates at a convienient venue..?? any thoughts
...Karting sounds great!

Track day on the 17th? might be a problem as I'm travelling to Paris, but I might be able to squeeze it in. Definately interested though... Try starting a new thread for this, to make it more visible!

Ian.
Hi Ian,

Do you think that the deeper sound comes from the fact that there is no crossover box, hence only half the pulse frequency per rear box? If that's the case then the idea of just changing the back boxes as a halfway measure (slightly quieter) on my car will won't give it the deep sound. Have you got spectral info on your recordings?
'
Hi Graham,

I can get spectral info, or send you the sound files.

The tone will obviously be a function of the materials used, the bore and the length of the pipes. The crossover in the stock system won't a 'crossover' but a coupler... i.e the two tubes run parallel with holes in them, wrapped in glass wool and put inside a bigger sealed box... The Milltek has the middle resonator too, just not coupled.

I think that to meet the 'halfway house' of volume, depth and tone without the low-end boom, you have to acrifice the low frequency. I think Milltek back boxes only might just do this... hopefully sounding like a quiet ferrari instead of a full bore Aston!

...without tubes, maths, and stuff to play with, we can only guess... but I think it's worth a shot!

Ian.
Sorry havnt replyed back ealier just very busy at work atm.
Thanks colli for the info on pricing,that doesnt seem bad at all for the work done.Trying not to sound stupid as you guys seem very clued up on performance upgrades but what do you mean when you said re.map was £400-500,what is remap :confused:
I said i would report back on warranty issues,when i was at my dealer this week getting my new S5 badge i showed him the site and this thread on your upgrades and he was very impressed,he went to see his boss when i mentioned about the warranty issue and the reply was as i expected if anything went wrong with exhaust or suspension obviously they would not cover it and any money spent would not add value to the car when or if i decided to hand it back in either in three or four years after lease deal expires his advice even though he liked mods was to leave car as it is but again said they cant stop a customer adding mods to the car as there is nothing in the lease contract that says you cant,well within reason anyway and your upgrades were acceptable as far as my dealer/salesman was concerned.
I am still very interested in getting my S5 done like yourselfs in the next few months or summer,think i will wait until Audi mag is out to have a good read up and check pics out,its a pity none of you guys dont live near me so i could check them out before i go down as i think its quite a drive from the north east.
How has everything been with the upgrades,any problems to report back,increase tyre wear was one point that did interest me with suspension been lower,does the added drop effect tyre wear? also realistically what is the chances of anything drastic happening to car after upgrades you guys have done,judging by the pics the company was very professional so all parts fitted was at the highest workmanship,just curious thats all.

Thanks Dave.
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as a rule i tend not comment on things i know little about,despite having a re-map done on my car i dont know to much about it apart from they plug in to the ecu with a laptop and re programme it . thats about it from me,its pulls better in 4th 5th 6th at there abouts 3500rpm and seems more responsive at the beggining of eaach gear as one goes through the box... i think...
at this stage i would like to ask proffessor ian to complete the answer of what a re- map is as i know he does know what technically what one is,cheers ian.
as far as wanting to see the mods in the flesh manchester is a couple of hours from the north east(in an s5 it is) i would be happy to meet you half way one sunday for you to have a look ,just let me know..
Professor Ian here! ;)

Remap... short answer... It's a new piece of software for the ECU, designed to improve responsiveness and power output from the engine. It's called a remap, because in the ECU is a piece of software that 'maps' (converts) the inputs from the various sensors on the car onto a set of engine controls, such as the ignition timing, injector timing and fuel charge. This is the heart of a modern engine.

How does a remap improve power and responsiveness? Well simply that Audi can always get more power out of the engine, but there are trade-offs with emissions, fuel economy, engine wear and driveability. What a remap does is replace the 'mapping program' with a new one that changes the mapping and trades a few things for a little more power. (something always has to give... it's the laws of physics and chemistry!). However, one of the easiest things to do with a remap is to change how the car responds to throttle input... a little more throttle, a lot more power... this doesnt actually make the car faster, but it feels faster and more responsive... especially after a gear change because as you apply a little throttle, the car applies full power.

What are the downsides of a remap? ...It depends on the exact car and remap... however, usually fuel economy and changes in the ability to drive smoothly... not a problem for Colli because he rags it everywhere! Ultimately, it's a bit more strain on the engine, so the engine will not be as reliable as designed in the long run, however, I really would not expect any issues in the normal lifetime of the car (up to 60k miles). But it also depends on how it's driven! ;)

Prof. Ian signing out!

:)
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as a rule i tend not comment on things i know little about
Fibber! I met you, I know that's b*llocks! ;)
Fibber! I met you, I know that's b*llocks! ;)
;) LOL!
thanks ian, thats exactly what i was thinking,just couldnt put it into type with my one finger typing ability...
ess 5, talking of b-llocks i see you obviously have none as you appear to have evaded the invitation to a track day or a bit if karting,?i guess you wont want to risk damaging any of them pretty badges scattered around your car..as you like add ons to your car, i found some furry dice in my dads loft this weekend,off his old ford cortina,do you want me to send them on to you?
all said, my quattro stickers have come through my letter box yesterday so will be geting them on asap...
p.s ian,my s5 has not been over 3600rpm yet, quite conservative with 4500 miles on the clock. you must be thinking of ess5 when you talk about ragging it around...
cheers guys
Well after reading proffesor Ian's report on Remap i am fully clued up now,thanks for that Ian :D
I will take you up on that sunday meet colli,would be good to see your S5 before making decision to book my car in,will give you a shout nearer the time to sort something out ;)

Cheers,Dave
North American S5 Ride Hieght

I have one of the first S5's in British Columbia - based on scaling from the UK S5 "before" pictures in the "S5 modifications - APS, UK, 15th Feb" thread, it looks like there is apprximately 40mm clearance between the tire & fender opening. My 2008 BC S5 has closer to 50mm of clearance.

I am going to lower my car and am trying to decide if 25mm drop is enough - I like the ride height of the H&R 25mm dropped UK car. However based on the seemingly higher ride height of my car, I am considering the H&R 35mm drop.

Does anyone have any idea why the Europen car seemed to start out lower than my BC car by at least 10mm? Will the 25mm drop springs still result in the ride height shown on the UK car?

Any input would be appreciated....
ess 5, talking of b-llocks i see you obviously have none as you appear to have evaded the invitation to a track day or a bit if karting,?i guess you wont want to risk damaging any of them pretty badges scattered around your car..as you like add ons to your car, i found some furry dice in my dads loft this weekend,off his old ford cortina,do you want me to send them on to you?
all said, my quattro stickers have come through my letter box yesterday so will be geting them on asap...
p.s ian,my s5 has not been over 3600rpm yet, quite conservative with 4500 miles on the clock. you must be thinking of ess5 when you talk about ragging it around...
cheers guys
LOL. Would love the dice Colli, I'll PM you my address. What colour are they - wouldn't want anything tasteless to ruin the car. Also, very pleased to hear you got the quattro 'stickers' (decals, please.....) - see? - wasn't such a stupid idea was it? As for your invitation/challenge to a bit of head-to-head, be careful what you wish for! Of course I'm up for it, although I could probably do more damage to you in a kart than my pride and joy, so be warned......

Must say, I am definitely ragging the car considerably more since it's been modded - fuel consumption has leaped up and the outer sides of the tyres are showing signs of having been put to work. I mean, it would be rude not to, right? However, compared to what I witnessed Ian putting your car through when you foolishly allowed him to bed-in the remap for you, I haven't even started.....

(P.S. - when you booked in to have the exhaust and springs done - is it this week?)
excellent reply..
i am pencilled in for this friday providing exhaust turns up,cant wait..
problem is the dice were out of my mums car and not my dads,thus they are pink with yellow dots,i will still send them on though ,after meeting you at aps i came away thinkin you was a bit of a fairy anyway...obviously i will want to see some pics posted on the forum of the dice in your car once you get them...
ian assured me he didnt go over 3600 rpm..when he had a go in my car, he commented you kept egging him on to red line it though..got your card marked pal..
www.daytona.co.uk have 3 different tracks around the country ,they do team events to single sprint races, they even do a 24 hour le,mans style race...have a look and perhaps we pick one thats central, i will then get the details, go from there...
...It was all Ess5s fault... he kept egging me on... and he switched the traction and ESP off to get more tyre smoke on the roundabouts. ;)

I'm up for track and karting... although I'm a bit of a timid driver.

:)
hello
could i come karting?
i dont have a s5 just yet but its being built week 12 I HOPE:confused: :confused:
AND DAYTONA ARE GOOD WENT LAST MONTH TO MILTON KEYNES:D :D :D
i am pencilled in for this friday providing exhaust turns up,cant wait..
..got your card marked pal..
Ah. Erm. I'm back at APS this Friday. Err, at least, I was. Now where's Ed's number.....?
Can't make it to the re-union... I have some work to do in London. Sorry guys... don't take the p*ss out of me too much just because I'm not here to answer back! ;)
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