S5 Coming to America (?)

BBT said:

You give far too much credit to the M3. The M3 is only fractionally faster in the straights due to the low torque (295 versus 325 lbs feet for the S5) and through the twisties -- who knows yet. Top Gear was able to beat the old M3 on the track with the B6 S4. It's more about driver skill and knowing the differences between the car's dynamics.

But even if the M3 gets to 60 in .1 or .2 seconds faster and is a fraction faster in the quarter mile.. who cares? It looks hideous and every douchebag with 60K who wants some kind of bragging rights will buy one. Who wants to be a member of that club?

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Agreed. The M3 is a chavs car. I see so many of them driven by nob'eds who have no idea how to drive, but they want it for the name. To be honest, I would never buy a BMW purely for that reason.. I wouldn't want to be associated with a large portion of BMWs demographic. Now that may sound snobbish, but unfortunately that really is how I feel about them.

Under normal driving conditions (not on a race track etc) the S4 has been proven to be quicker than the M3. That leads me to believe that the S5 will do even better. The RS4 has proven quicker than the new not yet for sale M3 coupe, so I can only imagine that the new RS4 and the RS5 will blow it out of the water on the track as well as continue to do so on the roads.

devo said:

The S5 has worse brakes than the M3; what are you smoking? They are not even cross drilled.

The torque advantage is greatly dimished by virtue of the extra weight AND extra diff; did you forget that the M has 60 more HP?

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Actually the S5 and RS4 brakes outperform the M3 brakes. I the most recent EVO review of the new M3 v's the RS4 (The RS4 won by the way), they slated the M3 brakes even with the race pads that BWM sneakily supplied it with.

The Audis are quicker not purely for their increased torque, but the Quattro system allows that torque to be laid down more efficiently than a rear wheel drive system. In a 1/4 mile, the new M3 is a good 3 car lengths behind the RS4.

I don't really see the S5 as a true M3 competitor. I'll leave that to the RS5 to shame the bimmer. But I still think that most S5 drivers will be able to out drive most M3 drivers due to the S5's increased traction and drivability.

BBT said:

That was me that make the "douchebag" comment, and for the record I did not call YOU a douchebag... I merely stated that a high number of M3 owners where I live in CA are total and utter douchebags. But it's not just my opinion, I've talked to so many people who think that. I know that many BMW owners are intelligent successful people -- but since there are so many more bmw owners statistically there is a higher quantity of every type of person that owns them, including the douches. However, there is also a certain segment of the market that aspire to a higher social level and do in fact buy a certain vehicle based on the perception of it's status value. And there are some non car enthusiasts that buy a car like an M3 purely for that reason and perceived bragging rights. Many of those gelled hair and chain wearing goobers are the ones cutting through lanes without signaling and driving like A-holes. That is what people notice.

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Unfortunately this is true around the world and the reason why I would never by a BMW. In fact as good a car as the M3 is (I have never denied that), the reputation it has gained in the UK is not a good one. It is the choice of the yobbo drug dealer.. he thinks he's cool in his M3 and aftermarket ICE and exhaust thumping through the city streets, driving as close as he can to the car in front and paying no consideration to other road users and having little or no driving ability. Sadly this is the arrogant stereotype that BWM has been tainted with.

It was me who said that the RS4 is faster in the 1/4 mile than the M3. Now stats on paper may say different. I don't care about that. Audi a known for being rather conservative in their stats, often under stating their 0-60 and BHP stats. But every real world test that I have seen by many motoring magazines and TV programs (TopGear and EVO to name just 2) have proven the M3 slower than the Audi. This includes the new M3.

I think some of the contradiction and perhaps confusion on all our parts may have come about with the difference between the RS4 and the S4. I have seen several tests where the S4 beats the M3 E46. The E46 only beat the S4 in 'perfect' conditions (strait track, warm weather, warm tires etc). In anything but these perfect conditions, the S4 was faster. I did refer, or at least meant to refer to this pair-off in one of my posts.

Another comparison I made was to the RS4 v's the E92 M3 and how the RS4 was still classed as the better all-round and faster car (albeit less 'fun' due to the back end action of the M3).

Now can we all be friends again?!