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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi folks,

I realise there is a remaps thread added this week, however the question looks to be around mapping for economy. I've also has a look through older threads, however things have probably moved on since then....so any advice welcomed.

I've been a member for a few years, however not posted for a while as I got the A5 where I wanted it...then had a kid and time vanished for a few years. I've just bought a 2017 S5 and hence looking to pick the brains of the masses. I'm based in Scotland (Edinburgh)

What am i looking for?
Ideally a stage 1 - Would love a stage 2, however work to the house means I need to be semi-sensible.

What i've explored to date:
Off-the-shelf 'tuning' boxes & a couple of quotes for bespoke remaps.

Tuning boxes:
Pros as I see it - easy to install and cheaper than a bespoke map
Cons? - Do they even work? Mixed reviews on trust pilot from what i could see.

Bespoke map:
1. Revo (Via Falkland Tuning) - Cost £838 inc VAT.
Suggested power post remap - 383 - 419 BHP
Suggested torque post remap - 424 - 439 lb/ft

2. MRC Tuning Scotland (D.H Automotive FALKIRK) - Cost £1,153 (assuming VAT included, however doesn't state)
Suggested power post remap - 418 BHP (last S5 they mapped)
Suggested torque post remap - 431 lb/ft (last S5 they mapped)

Any thoughts recommendations or other ideas?

I liked that the REVO map appears to be switchable i.e. 4 modes from stock to power. That would suggest it's a standard rather than bespoke map? I had heard mixed reviews about Revo in the past though.

Any help very much appreciated :)

Derek
 

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I'm not sure how much knowledge you have so I hope I don't insult your intelligence.

Boosting the output of your engine requires delaying when the wastegate is opened so that the turbocharger can produce a higher pressure (boost). As a minimum this will also require additional fuelling to match the increased air mass. However performance can be further enhanced with other adjustments such as ignition timing, especially if higher octane fuel is added. The ideal way to achieve all this is to modify the maps in the ECU. Tuners typically prepare maps for a given engine and hence can provide an "off-the-shelf" tune which works for any car with that engine. However engines to vary and so these maps can be "tweaked" to provide a custom/bespoke tune which might make slight improvements on a particular car. Such improvements can be more significant with additional modifications.

Switchable tunes simply select different maps. Those maps could be standard or custom. However I believe that in general REVO tunes use standard maps.

The main market for tuning boxes appears to be for customers who want to have a "removeable" tune and I assume that the main reason is to avoid warranty problems. Not all boxes are the same. The expensive ones are complete ECUs which "piggyback" the OE ECU and override parts of it. The cheaper ones work by "fooling" the ECU by intercepting signals. For a turbocharged engine the simplest will interpose itself between the manifold pressure sensor and the ECU and will produce a lower pressure signal. Thus when the real boost is at the level when the ECU would have opened the wastegate the signal is lower so the ECU keeps it closed. Such a simple box would rely on the ECU increasing fuelling based on the air flow sensor even though the pressure is lower. Often this is a compromise and the results are mixed. If this means that the engine runs lean then that means hotter which is not good for a turbocharged engine. In theory the more sensors a box uses then better it can operate, but this can never be as good (performance, reliability, safety) as an ECU remap tune.

For me the key to choosing a tune is the proof that it works. Without any actual measurement you just need to trust what the tuner tells you. However if the tuner uses a rolling road dyno then the graphs can be provided. If a before run is done then not only does this assess the health of the car but it also proves (or not) that the engine is performing according to Audi's spec.

Please note that insurance policies usually require that the policyholder notifies the underwriter of all modifications.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm not sure how much knowledge you have so I hope I don't insult your intelligence.

Boosting the output of your engine requires delaying when the wastegate is opened so that the turbocharger can produce a higher pressure (boost). As a minimum this will also require additional fuelling to match the increased air mass. However performance can be further enhanced with other adjustments such as ignition timing, especially if higher octane fuel is added. The ideal way to achieve all this is to modify the maps in the ECU. Tuners typically prepare maps for a given engine and hence can provide an "off-the-shelf" tune which works for any car with that engine. However engines to vary and so these maps can be "tweaked" to provide a custom/bespoke tune which might make slight improvements on a particular car. Such improvements can be more significant with additional modifications.

Switchable tunes simply select different maps. Those maps could be standard or custom. However I believe that in general REVO tunes use standard maps.

The main market for tuning boxes appears to be for customers who want to have a "removeable" tune and I assume that the main reason is to avoid warranty problems. Not all boxes are the same. The expensive ones are complete ECUs which "piggyback" the OE ECU and override parts of it. The cheaper ones work by "fooling" the ECU by intercepting signals. For a turbocharged engine the simplest will interpose itself between the manifold pressure sensor and the ECU and will produce a lower pressure signal. Thus when the real boost is at the level when the ECU would have opened the wastegate the signal is lower so the ECU keeps it closed. Such a simple box would rely on the ECU increasing fuelling based on the air flow sensor even though the pressure is lower. Often this is a compromise and the results are mixed. If this means that the engine runs lean then that means hotter which is not good for a turbocharged engine. In theory the more sensors a box uses then better it can operate, but this can never be as good (performance, reliability, safety) as an ECU remap tune.

For me the key to choosing a tune is the proof that it works. Without any actual measurement you just need to trust what the tuner tells you. However if the tuner uses a rolling road dyno then the graphs can be provided. If a before run is done then not only does this assess the health of the car but it also proves (or not) that the engine is performing according to Audi's spec.

Please note that insurance policies usually require that the policyholder notifies the underwriter of all modifications.
Thanks Dippy. This is really helpful. I've had a few re-maps in the past. A bespoke RR map on a TVR Cerbera and a non-RR map on the A4. The non RR one left me scratching my head as I wasn't sure if there was a placebo effect or not. Your advice is good...RR map sounds like the way forward, even if to show the before and after results.
 

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As a regular car guy for more years than I care to remember, I've read a lot, spoken to a lot of folk and seen stuff..
Conclusions have been reached..
1. I wouldn't use Revo.
2. Some cars are suited to a generic stage 1 map via an ecu by post (I've had 4 - a saab 95 2.0 petrol, mk4 golf gttdi, mk1 octavia vrs and mk1 leon fr tdi - no placebos, these things go very well indeed)
3. My A5 (B8 3.0 tdi manual) will be remapped on a dyno by someone with experience of these cars because, imo, that's the only suitable option.
 

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Hi folks,

I realise there is a remaps thread added this week, however the question looks to be around mapping for economy. I've also has a look through older threads, however things have probably moved on since then....so any advice welcomed.

I've been a member for a few years, however not posted for a while as I got the A5 where I wanted it...then had a kid and time vanished for a few years. I've just bought a 2017 S5 and hence looking to pick the brains of the masses. I'm based in Scotland (Edinburgh)

What am i looking for?
Ideally a stage 1 - Would love a stage 2, however work to the house means I need to be semi-sensible.

What i've explored to date:
Off-the-shelf 'tuning' boxes & a couple of quotes for bespoke remaps.

Tuning boxes:
Pros as I see it - easy to install and cheaper than a bespoke map
Cons? - Do they even work? Mixed reviews on trust pilot from what i could see.

Bespoke map:
1. Revo (Via Falkland Tuning) - Cost £838 inc VAT.
Suggested power post remap - 383 - 419 BHP
Suggested torque post remap - 424 - 439 lb/ft

2. MRC Tuning Scotland (D.H Automotive FALKIRK) - Cost £1,153 (assuming VAT included, however doesn't state)
Suggested power post remap - 418 BHP (last S5 they mapped)
Suggested torque post remap - 431 lb/ft (last S5 they mapped)

Any thoughts recommendations or other ideas?

I liked that the REVO map appears to be switchable i.e. 4 modes from stock to power. That would suggest it's a standard rather than bespoke map? I had heard mixed reviews about Revo in the past though.

Any help very much appreciated :)

Derek
Hi Derek,
I'm in West Lothian and took my standard 2015 S5 3.0T to Star Performance in Kirkaldy. Got before/after RR. Ended up with 404BHP on standard map. I did add a K&N cone filter to the standard air box too)
I do 55 miles a day (mostly motorway) and have kept records of every fuel fill-up...
14966 miles driven for 2397 litres of fuel > average 28.4mpg. This does improve when I filter data between E5/E10 fuel (get about 2mpg more with E10 - worth the trip to Costco!)
It can drop quite drastically when the foot goes down but well worth it.
I think it was £400-£450 for the map.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi Derek,
I'm in West Lothian and took my standard 2015 S5 3.0T to Star Performance in Kirkaldy. Got before/after RR. Ended up with 404BHP on standard map. I did add a K&N cone filter to the standard air box too)
I do 55 miles a day (mostly motorway) and have kept records of every fuel fill-up...
14966 miles driven for 2397 litres of fuel > average 28.4mpg. This does improve when I filter data between E5/E10 fuel (get about 2mpg more with E10 - worth the trip to Costco!)
It can drop quite drastically when the foot goes down but well worth it.
I think it was £400-£450 for the map.
Thanks Alan. That could be a winner given how close this is...and the price considerably cheaper than the other RR tune quote. Sounds like you're happy with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Also throwing into the mix...APR? Price comparable with MRC but look like slightly better numbers and they also seem to add STOP / START to default OFF and a few other nice extras. Anyone had any experience with APR? Looks like AUTOHAUS in edinburgh are the local dealers.
 

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The best company after a few months of research, to me, was 034 Motorsport's Dynamic+ software. The ECU Stage 2 and TCU upgrade cost about £1100, and they offer extremely cheap upgrades to the next stage! (I paid $100 ~£83 to go from stage 2 to 2+ with them).

They're located in the states but will set you up an account with the software you purchase and send you a flashing kit to install it yourself. The process is extremely easy I did my ECU and TCU on my driveway without instructions in less than 30 mins.

They offer up to stage 2+ also, which includes files for dual pulley setup as well as increased throttle body size.

Can't recommend this company enough. Their tuning team seems to have inbreeding knowledge and has answered every question I've had perfectly. I've an S5 B8 but they've got plenty more on offer for B9.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The best company after a few months of research, to me, was 034 Motorsport's Dynamic+ software. The ECU Stage 2 and TCU upgrade cost about £1100, and they offer extremely cheap upgrades to the next stage! (I paid $100 ~£83 to go from stage 2 to 2+ with them).

They're located in the states but will set you up an account with the software you purchase and send you a flashing kit to install it yourself. The process is extremely easy I did my ECU and TCU on my driveway without instructions in less than 30 mins.

They offer up to stage 2+ also, which includes files for dual pulley setup as well as increased throttle body size.

Can't recommend this company enough. Their tuning team seems to have inbreeding knowledge and has answered every question I've had perfectly. I've an S5 B8 but they've got plenty more on offer for B9.
Hi Mikey. I ended up going with IE (Integrated Engineering). Dave had suggested the company and I did some investigation. Kit arrived today so will be flashing when I get back from holiday. Will post the initial thoughts.
 

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The best company after a few months of research, to me, was 034 Motorsport's Dynamic+ software. The ECU Stage 2 and TCU upgrade cost about £1100, and they offer extremely cheap upgrades to the next stage! (I paid $100 ~£83 to go from stage 2 to 2+ with them).

They're located in the states but will set you up an account with the software you purchase and send you a flashing kit to install it yourself. The process is extremely easy I did my ECU and TCU on my driveway without instructions in less than 30 mins.

They offer up to stage 2+ also, which includes files for dual pulley setup as well as increased throttle body size.

Can't recommend this company enough. Their tuning team seems to have inbreeding knowledge and has answered every question I've had perfectly. I've an S5 B8 but they've got plenty more on offer for B9.
Hi Mikey, I would like to flash 034Motorsport tcu software to my B8.5 Audi S5. Any chance you live near Portsmouth or maybe you would like to sell your flashing kit ? Thanks, Daniel
 
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