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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Worry not inside does not contain any dubious materials that may or may not entertain/disgust....

I have recently been in for a clutch and got a call from the mech telling me of a problem they found with my NSF output from the gearbox.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbtdg5oo6ZA

It makes for depressing viewing...

So far its been sent to a 'gear box guy' for looking at. He looked at it and said it cannot be shimmed and he said he will have to look at what bell housings he has to swap over. Hmmm.

So I investigated a little and found Audi would sell all the parts to do the job for about £60 including a new flange shaft bearing...

Has anyone had any experience of doing/had it done/ removed as much play as this?

Only had the car a year and never have identified any noise that I could pin this too, and believe me I'm very conscious of every creek, whine and gurgle! Also never owned a diesel so put some noises and things down to the need of a new clutch and fly.

So far no mechanic has offered any solid ideas of time scale or cost so Monday I might relieve them of the box to get it sorted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
So gearbox guys said we wont touch it, heres a £2,500 option (replacement gearbox) take-it-or-leave-it kind of attitude.

I picked up the box and did the job (including new shaft bearing/shims/bracket etc) currently back in the garage getting refitted to the car. I have photos of the job if useful to anyone.
 

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So gearbox guys said we wont touch it, heres a £2,500 option (replacement gearbox) take-it-or-leave-it kind of attitude.

I picked up the box and did the job (including new shaft bearing/shims/bracket etc) currently back in the garage getting refitted to the car. I have photos of the job if useful to anyone.

Hi,

What parts did you buy and please post some photos if you can.

Many Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Flange Shaft Bearing Fun

hey all,

well after talking at length to a few techy guys,a very helpful Audi tech and the great library in the sky (google) I discover that this problem exists due a design of certain gearboxes detailed here that does not prevent the movement of the bearing in the bearing housing in the gearbox.

The result of this means over time the bearing ends up etching itself a new home through the aluminium (steel > aluminium), making the snug fitting hole oval shaped and resulting in the play found in the video in my first post.

even with that amount of play and obvious damage, the closest I think I could identify was a droning, blown wheel-bearing type sound, but less localised, and during very low speeds and change of direction when pulling out/reversing a sound which could best be described as a 'gurgle' which would look to be the bearing sliding around its worn out hole.

As this is a know problem, there is also a 'fix', but the 'fix' doesn't address the damaged holder, rather is designed to stop it from happening by preloading the bearing mounting edge inside the holder against the end plate.

'Repair Kit' from Audi:


Here is the gearbox on the bench (useful if you haven't yet emptied it of oil to keep it at an angle):


Here is a photo of my scored and nasty flange shaft bearing holder:


This details the process of checking and adjusting the bearing preloading.

Obviously I needed to find a way of building back up the missing material with the understanding that provided the bearing is preloaded as detailed, the fit of the bearing in the holder is more to do with alignment than anything.

Firstly, a new bearing, cir-clip and holding plate/bracket:


How you may choose to do that is up to you, a better way that I show would be to lathe it out round, fit a custom sleeve and use that to mount the bearing in... I chose to make many shims to the thicknesses required from a few pieces of .3 and .5mm alu sheet.
I didn't take any photos of the process I took, but it involved a micrometer and some tin snips, sand paper, JB weld, anvil and hammer and many hours of patience.

heres the end result:


I wish I had captured a good angle to show the way the wear had eaten the aluminium holder and the final fixed round hole, but I was too involved ;)

If you choose to do this, bare in mind the tolerances you are dealing with are very fine, the shaft has to be perfectly aligned to prevent any damage to the front differential or the oil seals the shaft slides through. - so, at your own risk.

All done and in the process of bolting up (by the book the bolts should be 10Nm + 45 degrees...):


For fun... heres what the a5 Quattro 6 Speed Manual gearbox looks like in the back of a smart car :


When I get near the list again i'll list all the audi part numbers for anyone interested.

Hope this is useful for someone, at very least some sniggering at the gratuitous use of:
Flange, Shaft, Hole.
 

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hey all,

well after talking at length to a few techy guys,a very helpful Audi tech and the great library in the sky (google) I discover that this problem exists due a design of certain gearboxes detailed here that does not prevent the movement of the bearing in the bearing housing in the gearbox.

The result of this means over time the bearing ends up etching itself a new home through the aluminium (steel > aluminium), making the snug fitting hole oval shaped and resulting in the play found in the video in my first post.

even with that amount of play and obvious damage, the closest I think I could identify was a droning, blown wheel-bearing type sound, but less localised, and during very low speeds and change of direction when pulling out/reversing a sound which could best be described as a 'gurgle' which would look to be the bearing sliding around its worn out hole.

As this is a know problem, there is also a 'fix', but the 'fix' doesn't address the damaged holder, rather is designed to stop it from happening by preloading the bearing mounting edge inside the holder against the end plate.

'Repair Kit' from Audi:


Here is the gearbox on the bench (useful if you haven't yet emptied it of oil to keep it at an angle):


Here is a photo of my scored and nasty flange shaft bearing holder:


This details the process of checking and adjusting the bearing preloading.

Obviously I needed to find a way of building back up the missing material with the understanding that provided the bearing is preloaded as detailed, the fit of the bearing in the holder is more to do with alignment than anything.

Firstly, a new bearing, cir-clip and holding plate/bracket:


How you may choose to do that is up to you, a better way that I show would be to lathe it out round, fit a custom sleeve and use that to mount the bearing in... I chose to make many shims to the thicknesses required from a few pieces of .3 and .5mm alu sheet.
I didn't take any photos of the process I took, but it involved a micrometer and some tin snips, sand paper, JB weld, anvil and hammer and many hours of patience.

heres the end result:


I wish I had captured a good angle to show the way the wear had eaten the aluminium holder and the final fixed round hole, but I was too involved <a href="http://www.a5oc.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" >:)</a>

If you choose to do this, bare in mind the tolerances you are dealing with are very fine, the shaft has to be perfectly aligned to prevent any damage to the front differential or the oil seals the shaft slides through. - so, at your own risk.

All done and in the process of bolting up (by the book the bolts should be 10Nm + 45 degrees...):


For fun... heres what the a5 Quattro 6 Speed Manual gearbox looks like in the back of a smart car :


When I get near the list again i'll list all the audi part numbers for anyone interested.

Hope this is useful for someone, at very least some sniggering at the gratuitous use of:
Flange, Shaft, Hole.
Hi Sparx, great write up and some really useful info!

Can you tell me if theres any reason why this repair couldnt be done with the gearbox still fitted to the vehicle?

I have the same fault and was hoping to get away with carrying out the repair with the box in situe.

Many thanks in advance!
 

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Hey guys,

Do you happen to have the part number for the repair kit? Sb asked here already but never got a reply...

Thanks
Might be better to PM/email Sparx as you don't always get a notification on replies to threads. :)

Not sure if a phone call to the dealer might give you your answer, I guess they should know about this as a technical service bulletin was issued for it!? :)
 
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A few months ago I had the same drive flange issue.
As my background is motor sport engineering I was unimpressed with the Audi 'fix' as detailed in service bulletin SB-10043562-7138 . Having considered the problem I thought there is a better engineered solution. Having CAD design experience I drew up a new bearing carrier which replaces the flat plate original bearing retainer, centres the bearing/shaft properly in the casting and passes loads into the casing via the three bearing retaining bolts.

With the gearbox on the bench and using electric drill mounted sanding drums over an arbor (Ebay or good hardware outlest sell these) I cleaned up and opened the damaged gearbox case bore increasing overall diameter by around +6mm to allow the insertion of the new steel bearing carrier. Opening up the bore took around 20 minutes to sort out.
177949
177950
177951

If anyone else wants to use this solution the best option is probably to email mail me at [email protected].

I hope this helps someone else out.
 

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Great work Tim thanks!!!
 

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Wow, that's really cool.

Do you think this probllem applies to the ZF 8HP transmission as well?
I think it is earlier A4/A5 models. It only specifies VIN number rather than year.
 

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Hi All,

I have read through this thread as i am currently having the same issue with my 3L V6 TDI,

I was wondering, that with the flange issue, when standing underneath the car on a ramp, would it then sound like the noise is coming from the middle of the box?

if anyone could let me know that would be appreciated and i could save alot of money if so.

thanks

Sam
 

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Hi Sam, the flange issue if you have it is very easy to identify on a ramp. Try moving the shaft up and down as near to the gearbox housing as possible. There should be no movement at all. If there is undo the three bolts holding the steel plate to the gearbox housing, pull it off the housing and you should be able to see the bearing itself moving relative to the gearbox housing and its likely fine aluminium particles will be evident around the bearing and backside of the steel bearing retaing flange. Hopefully you wont find any movement.
 

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Hi I’ve have just seen this post about you making a batch of repair strengthing kits how much is it please

I have had my gear box done last year due to this issue and now I think it’s starting againam going to change the drive shaft but wanted to make the area more stronger so maybe stop the issue growing

thanks
Darren
 

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Hi I’ve have just seen this post about you making a batch of repair strengthing kits how much is it please

I have had my gear box done last year due to this issue and now I think it’s starting againam going to change the drive shaft but wanted to make the area more stronger so maybe stop the issue growing

thanks
Darren
Morning Darren, mail me on [email protected] and I will send you fitting info and prices so you can decide if this soloution is right for you. Regards Tim
 
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