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Dear All, Has anyone experience of this engine oil additive made by the excellent German company Liqui-Moly? They claim that it coats the engine internals and manages to reduce friction and thus improve fuel consumption. I was cynical until I made some research and so I have now added it to my van engine just to see how she performs.

Any comments, experiences and reactions please???

Thanks Simon
 

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I'm not a fan of adding stuff to oil. These days, good oils are very very good. They are designed to do what they do under widely varying conditions. So if you use the right oil for your engine, it will do the job. An additive pollutes the oil formulation, and we don't know what that will do to the original function of the oil. So, you might have an additive that does "coat" the metal, but it is in a carrier fluid which might negatively affect the performance of the motor oil. The active ingredient might make it harder for the oil to leave a film where it is needed, thus increasing wear during cold starts, or increasing piston wear.

I am not an oil engineer, nor an engine engineer, so this is just my opinion. Now back in my father's day in the 1930's, yeah there was a lot of room for improvement with oils and engines! Nowadays the tolerances are so tight that the oil is part of the design process, with film strength part of the consideration.

As far as economy gains, I doubt you can make any measurable improvements. Car manufacturers are under so much pressure to improve fuel economy that they take to all kinds of crazy shenanigans. If a simple oil additive would give them a fraction of a % gain, they would put it in.

Now if your motor is getting worn, additives might mask the symptoms for a while and delay major maintenance. That's a different animal altogether.
 

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I tried CeraTec. I don't have any long-term experience with it, but as with every new oil change, the engine felt like it revved easier. But that could just be in my head. Definitely no noticeable improvement in fuel consumption.

The problem with CeraTec and their other additive, MoS2 is that they both flush away when you change the oil. That means you need to keep adding them with oil changes. CeraTec is supposed to last a little longer because it's supposed to stick to the metal better, while the MoS2 definitely goes away with every oil change.

So I am now trying their new engine oil, MolyGen 5W-40 It is VW 502 and 505 compatible. The additives are already in the oil, so I don't need to buy additional additives. It's probably a combination of MoS2 and CeraTec additive. So far, for about 1000 miles, so good. Engine is smooth, revs free, and no evidence of oil burning (as some have complained). I haven't noticed any improvement in fuel consumption though.

It's a fun experiment, but I think the ultimate best thing to do is just changing the oil every 4 - 5000 miles. I have an oil extractor, so it's easy to change the oil often. I change the oil filter every other oil change (approx 8000 miles). The engine's has 91,000 plus miles now, and it still drives very well.
 

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Thanks guys very interesting and I kind of agree with you both. I am not looking for nor expecting snake oil miracles of course cos I am too old for that, I just seek to give my engine some extra care I guess. Thanks. More comments and or experience???
 

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Dear All, Has anyone experience of this engine oil additive made by the excellent German company Liqui-Moly? They claim that it coats the engine internals and manages to reduce friction and thus improve fuel consumption. I was cynical until I made some research and so I have now added it to my van engine just to see how she performs.

Any comments, experiences and reactions please???

Thanks Simon
Arggghhhh!! Simon!!! Now you've done it. You opened a thread about additives!

Anyway... in short, if you are using a good quality oil that fits the manufacturers recommendation for your vehicle then you don't need any additives. I'm talking Mobil 1, Castrol Edge etc.

Why i hear you ask? Well, as per what you've done its best to research. Bob is the oil guys has some good info (have to sift through it a bit though. People can be opinionated there).
Back to why - so a bit of background...

I started researching oil and friction wear (the witchcraft of tribology) a while back. I had a tuned Passat 1.8T and there were LOADS of scare stories regarding engine oil sludge killing engines.
Turns out that in the US people were NOT using the correct type of oil for the engine. They were using Walmart cheap mineral (for example) instead of VAG rated fully synthetic.
The mineral oil cooked in the turbo (like chip fat) and turned to sludge.

And so from this i started to look at additive protection for the engine. Now i can't remember all the additives and compounds but I'll bullet point below:
  • Many years ago additives like Molyslip, Extralube ZX-1, STP etc were used as engine build tolerance was less than today and oil was not as good. We are going back many many years.
  • Now fast forward to today engine oil is excellent stuff. Using Mobil 1 ESP as an example (a top end fully synthetic oil) is got the base oil and then has additive packages added to it.
    • The packages will include detergents to clean the engine on the inside
    • Low sulphur for DPF
    • Anti-friction additives
    • And they really are that good. This is why in todays world a 12k oil change interval is accepted.
      • In the US some are weird and will change high spec oil at 3k! Oil companies are laughing and taking their bucks!
  • I did try different additives years ago. They never harmed the engine. And to be honest i never knew if it benefitted either.
    • Oil is carefully formulated with the packages so adding an additive "may", i say "may" upset the balance.
  • My current vehicle - i've put over 60k in 3 years on it and have changed the oil with the Audi recommended oil at the require oil change intervals.
    • No additives
    • And this includes filling it with petrol (diesel 3.0TDI!) at 50k. It now has 83k.
      • No damage or issues. Petrol acted like a first class fuel system cleaner
      • 1/3rd tank petrol, topped up with diesel. Added a bottle of Millers to tank and then drove for a long time to burn it off!
  • I do add millers fuel additive if i use supermarket fuel
    • No real reason to do this but it makes me feel better
    • Supermarket fuel meets UK specs and is fit for use - regardless of peoples opinions! We have very good fuel in UK. Even the cheap stuff!
    • High end fuel such as Shell V-Power does make a difference.
      • The fuel has a better cleaning package added to it
      • The higher cetane or octane means the fuel ignites quicker, more of it burns which makes it cleaner and more efficient
        • Better for DPF as a by-product
So in summary - if you use a good engine oil as per manufacturers recommendation then no additives required. I've been there, tried it, spent money, researched it etc. Just use good oil. Don't go above the oil change intervals. Change oil when required. And if the oil is black then its doing its job (trapping particles, sulphites, cleaning, lubricating etc).
The additives being sold are already added to the oil by the manufacturer at the refinery as part of a package.

Everyone will have an opinion on this. People will tell me i'm wrong! And i'm not here to argue - just giving my 0.2p lol!
I did the above as an engineer as i was interested to find out more. I was open to additives and their benefits. But my conclusion was - use the correct oil and a good one at that!
 

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Savs mate brilliant thank you, I really appreciate your very wise words and experience. We mature er (in my case) old farts have alot of experience, I agree. Well, so far I have added it only to my van engine cos the oil level was just a bit low so the 300mL seemed about right. My experience so far:

1. Ps I use Redex or STP every few thousand kilometres cos I always think that an extra bit of cleaning cannot but help. I well know that premium fuels these days have many additives but hey, I am old school.

2. I added the Ceramic stuff to the van which is a 2010 Vito with the 3.0 V6 diesel and she has about 150k kilometers on the clock. I bought her new and she has always been treated well, long trips and she uses almost no oil between services, and only good Castrol engine oil used.

3. My initial impression is very positive. The engine SEEMS quieter and the auto box SEEMS to change earlier and rev less, so the fuel consumption SEEMS slightly better.

Of course we are in semi lockdown and so I cannot go anywhere, I use the van less and I have not yet measured a full tank to full tank consumption. I know that one must be cautious cos the effects can be partly true and partly in our minds cos we know that we have added the stuff.

I will report when I know more......
 
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Savs mate brilliant thank you, I really appreciate your very wise words and experience. We mature er (in my case) old farts have alot of experience, I agree. Well, so far I have added it only to my van engine cos the oil level was just a bit low so the 300mL seemed about right. My experience so far:

1. Ps I use Redex or STP every few thousand kilometres cos I always think that an extra bit of cleaning cannot but help. I well know that premium fuels these days have many additives but hey, I am old school.

2. I added the Ceramic stuff to the van which is a 2010 Vito with the 3.0 V6 diesel and she has about 150k kilometers on the clock. I bought her new and she has always been treated well, long trips and she uses almost no oil between services, and only good Castrol engine oil used.

3. My initial impression is very positive. The engine SEEMS quieter and the auto box SEEMS to change earlier and rev less, so the fuel consumption SEEMS slightly better.

Of course we are in semi lockdown and so I cannot go anywhere, I use the van less and I have not yet measured a full tank to full tank consumption. I know that one must be cautious cos the effects can be partly true and partly in our minds cos we know that we have added the stuff.

I will report when I know more......


Hey Simon

No worries. Its alright, i'm an old fart! lol!!

1. Ps I use Redex or STP every few thousand kilometres cos I always think that an extra bit of cleaning cannot but help. I well know that premium fuels these days have many additives but hey, I am old school.
I use premium fuel - but that still doesn't stop me using redex and/ or Millers diesel power ecomax! Old habits die hard.

3. My initial impression is very positive. The engine SEEMS quieter and the auto box SEEMS to change earlier and rev less, so the fuel consumption SEEMS slightly better.
I agree here mate. When i used additives for oil i always thought the response was good. I remember using ZX-1 (low friction additive and was also used by NATO) the engine seemed quieter.
I used it on several cars. It didn't harm which seemed the main thing.
On a diesel people should be careful as an additive may alter the burn characteristic of the oil when passing through the engine and may have a bad effect on the DPF.
Same may be for new petrol cars with the new fangled petrol particulate filter.
But - i've not seem or found evidence that it does harm.

I will report when I know more......
And that's what its all about! :)

Sometimes we have to trial and experiment to find out. And every experiment or test is new data to add to the collective (you can tell i may work in engineering here a bit!).
I found nothing to harm my engines when trialling different things. 5th gear had a good episode years ago where they found redex had an effect to bring some lost HP back. But that was cleaning injectors.

I did used to use this stuff for cleaning fuel lines and injectors. It had great reviews and when i used it things did seem better.
BG44K Petrol fuel cleaner
BG245 Diesel fuel cleaner
Have a google for independent reviews first though. I believe dealers used to (or still do, i dont know) use this during services.

P.S I also tried adding 2 stroke oil to diesel fuel on my old Peugeot 2.7 HDI V6. When diesel fuel was made low sulphur there was a lot of talk on t'internet about lack of lubricity to diesel fuel pumps.
I tried it but didn't really find a difference. Went through two bottles of 2 stroke. Went back to using millers after then lol!
I put millers in if i'm not using premium diesel. I do notice a difference in it. Bit quieter and bit more pick up on the engine. At least i think it is so i'll keep using it!

Keep the thread updated. I'll still be interested to see how the ceratec does as an observer :)
 

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Thanks Savs mate very interesting!!! Unfortunately we have just been locked down again so I must wait a while before I can tell you full tank to full tank if the fuel consumption is any different OR this is just my imagination lol.
 
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