[ScoobyDoo555]

Hi All,

My name's Dan - based in the UK. Currently in a Porsche Carrera 4, but am looking to return to the Audi S-fold (had a modded B5 S4 Avant a while back). Why? I've had the Porsche 9 years, and while it's an epic car, it's the longest I've ever owned a car and I'm just looking for something different now. Hence the S5.
I don't do many miles and it's a daily driver in the countryside with some decent A-roads.

I'm not here to cause issues, so please take what I say as from the outsider's perspective, trying to get the lowdown on which car is right for him So V8 vs V6:

From what I've gathered so far, the V8's party-piece is "simply" the engine sound. Married to a manual box, it's kinda good. They seem quite "cheap" to buy (cheapest was £6k, granted, with 250k (miles) on the clock though!), although not the best idea to go in at that level possibly?
The things that go wrong are coking (?), high-pressure fuel pumps x 2, and possibly standard wear & tear items. Servicing is relatively standard as are parts. Tax isn't cheap, but insurance is (for me anyway! )
Due to it's age, the cabin will be missing out on some niceties, but I'm not interested in Nav as I'll be installing/using Apple CarPlay. Although it would be nice to see what is available for the V8.
The manual apparently likes the taste of the clutch, but the auto is a little more sympathetic towards it.
What's the S-tronic auto like though? I appreciate it won't be as "on it" as the DSG, but is it still responsive when you press the changer?
Although probably answered by my earlier comment, does teh V8 respond well to high miles? (as long as they're serviced and looked after?)

The V6 - newer, more modern cabin and toys, the "modability" to RS5 territory for little money, DSG box (so all the issues that come with that), the engine noise (with a suitable exhaust) - it appears more reliable thus far, although entry-prices for the V6 are a lot higher.

Running costs are similar although in the UK, the V8 will cost more to tax.

There appears to be various states of trim - the black edition and then "regular" (vorsprung and edition 1 being for the latest models) - what is the consensus on this?
What about optional extras? What are desirable things to have? B&O stereo over the Bose(?) - quite liked the Bose in my S4.
Do any of the extras have issues (such as sunroofs being leaky etc)

Modding is an interest, although we're not talking The Fast & The Furious! The Porsche is modded with some engine mods and pushes out similar to the V8, albeit a LOT lighter (some 200kg), I've also put a Dansk sports exhaust on it, so it's "meaty".
This appears easily mimicked on the S5 (regardless of engine), albeit it's not a cheap option - so perhaps look at a car with it already done?
I'm aware of the MRC boys etc from the S4 days too.

Minor mods also include the RS5-style grille, and maybe something to improve the stance.
The coilovers etc don't suffer from the RS-issues that dogged the B7 RS4 and the RS6 (from what I'm aware of) - so is this a popular upgrade?

The V8 does seem like a golden opportunity as it's one of the dying breed of cars - that said, is it one of those that I resign myself to having a car that's worth nothing at the time of selling? The Porsche has gone up in value from the day I bought it, which is nice, but ultimately an unrealistic impression.
The 2nd hand market in the UK is silly right now, and as such cars are over-valued anyway, but it would be nice to at least get something back at selling time

I'm trying to get to my local Audi dealer (Hereford) as they've got a v6 in stock to at least try. Then I can try the V8 - I'm in no mega-hurry as the Porsche needs to be sold first And time is on my side

Thanks for any inputs

Dan

 

[nigelbat]

I have a V8 maual S5
Pano roof
MMI 2g high
Milltek exhaust
Would have liked red leather but i ok with black, not worth changing.
bought at 93k now has 106k
Had input shaft bearing on gearbox cltuch at same time now needed but sensible.
New propshaft (centre bearing was a bit noisey)
Usual maintenance parts.
One of the last V8 manuals along with the BMW 650.
Very happy. Go for it 😀

 

[TonyP]

I love my S5, stage 2 tuned (MRC) at just short of 500bhp, quick as a quick thing.

Thing is every time is see or hear that V8 RS5 I regret not splashing out a bit more (£30k instead of the £23k) at the time for a RS5.

I won't change it now as that makes no sense, but that V8 is so damn nice sounding.

 

[ScoobyDoo555]

Thanks for the replies

I did some more homework last night, and using Autotrader as the guide, V8 S5s seem to top out at about £15k, with anything up to about 70k. There's then a bit of a "no-mans land" until about £17k when the V6s start, but they've got much higher mileage - as to be expected as it's reflected in the price. I'm talking coupes here, as I don't want a convertible or sportback.

Going from the replies above, heart says V8. The caveat being to ensure you've got a bit of a kitty for the big-bill days, which could happen.
I am tempted with the auto box - I know it goes against the grain though.

It's encouraging to see that there are performance gains to be made from the V8 - the internet seemed to gloss-over that aspect. And while it is easier to tune a forced-induction engine, the N/A tuning seemed a bit light on info - even MRC don't quote performance gains on their page. So thanks for the info about a Stage 2 tuning - circa 150bhp for £650? Hell, even a Stage 1 is £550, I guess something along the likes of circa 400bhp? (conservative guess).

I do get the pull of the RS5, but there seems to be alot of additional considerations (primarily running/maintenance & initial purchase costs) that don't add up for me - the styling and badge aside. The tune seems to eradicate the performance gains though. And it's a bit of a "sleeper"

The techy nerd in me now needs to "RTFM" about the various MMI iterations. And cabin toys.

Any other comments about trim options etc would be most helpful

Dan

 

[TonyP]

Stage 2 is around £1500 and takes it from 330 to 480, on my B8.5 (65 plate) supercharged S5. Not sure what the gains are on the B9 with turbo is.

Can't comment on trim, but certainly go for one with as many options as you can. Hard to find are adaptive cruise, dynamic rear diff, and side warning stuff

 

[ScoobyDoo555]

Cheers Tony,

I thought it was CHEAP for £650!! But TBF, that's the price on MRC's website and I'm assuming I've misread that (St2 only available AFTER St1 )

I also wanted to ask about the 330bhp - from my (limited) understanding, the V8s came with 350bhp. I thought it was the V6s that came with 330bhp?
I appreciate that these aren't exactly specific figures, and flywheel is more important etc etc


Also, "adaptive cruise, dynamic rear diff, and side warning stuff", hard to find, but are they (a) desirable (b) worth paying a premium for?
I'd have thought the diff might be though

Dan

 

[TonyP]

Yes 330 for the S5 V6 and 350 for the V8 sounds about right.

worth the premium is up to you, but they are hard to retrospectively add

 

[TonyP]

Oh and for tuning take a look at the S4 B8, essentially the same engine

Audi S4 B8 | MRC Tuning

» Audi S4 B8 | Custom engine management and Rolling road dyno tuning for Audi, Seat, Skoda, Volkswagen, Porsche, Lamborghini, Mercedes

www.mrctuning.com

 

[Dippy]

It's relatively easy to add a supercharger to the V8.

 

[ScoobyDoo555]

I've been watching Saving Salvage on YouTube - he's an ex-Audi tech who fixes up a lot of VAG cars. He did a B8 RS4 Avant with TTS supercharger last year..... looked very interesting

Something to consider, although at the moment I'm just trying to ascertain which base model to go with

Dan

 

[SimonRoma]

Dan me ol' fruitcake, your considerations are really quite on the button methinks. Given that you have a Porker then expensive service bills are perhaps not a major problem/suprise, remember that the S cars are based on the A cars and thus service parts are not unreasonable whereas the RS cars are very specialist and therefore very much more expensive.

 

[ScoobyDoo555]

Yes, TBH, the Porsche has been really reasonable considering what it is. Porsche are really strange, and you often hear the "Porsche Tax" comment thrown about. While it's true, it's rarely on items you'd expect to be expensive, like suspension joints or, clutches. It's daft stuff like cubby holders Although tbf, a power-steering pipe (x2) was close to £1k!!

The pricey thing for me was an engine rebuild as despite going into the ownership eyes WIDE open, getting checks done etc, my engine suffered from bore score (aka piston slap) and some D-chunking as a result (where the piston starts to go oval) - it was a LOT of money to have it all put right by a company called Hartech, but as a result, my engine (touch wood) has been rock solid, albeit after spending another 5-figures! (ouch)
Servicing has been cheap as the service items are cheap. Labour's good too, although of recent I've done the servicing myself and photo'd/ documented it all. (When you buy a Porsche, you're actually buying the paperwork: the car is thrown in as an "extra" )

Well, I've got a few more days of isolation after succumbing to Covid-19, and thankfully it hasn't hit me too badly. So more opportunity to research and watch YouTube vids on the S5
I'll try my local stealer again, as they appear to have forgotten how the computer works - even if it's to get a test in a their V6. Interestingly, it's up for about £21k, which was more than I wanted to spend, but the Porsche is very similar money (if I can get it).
Head says to go for a cheaper car and keep a slush fund for the "what ifs" though.
The V8s are appealing, but I don't know about the auto box: whether I can live with it. The V6 with DSG looks great, but I get the impression you'd need a warranty for just the gearbox - watching videos of failing mechatronics today and their £1800 replacement cost put the frighteners up the wife (not happy: that's my job )

Car research - one of life's "first world problems"

Dan

 

[TonyP]

If you are in no rush then try and get a drive in both and possibly a stage 2 modded S5...

Where are you located, I'm happy for you to take a spin in my S5...

 

[ScoobyDoo555]

Cheers Tony, very kind of you to offer. I'm in Herefordshire, which is nowhere near anywhere, although Mordor is apparently quite close

I've contacted Audi again with the hope of setting up a V6 testdrive. Not much I can do just yet anyway due to isolation.

Dan

 

[TonyP]

Ah yes, bit far from me in Hertfordshire...

 

[Dave Kwatro]

The V8 beats the V6 on noise, but that's about it.

The V6, especially late 2014 onwards will give you facelifted exterior, some bits inside, lower tax, nearing 500bhp, but still 40mpg!

The V8 Manual is nice and solid, but as you say, clutches can be an issue. The auto tip-tronic is ok but it is a full auto with torque converter so a little slushy and not as good as the S-tronic DSG auto box on the V6. The V8 isn't slow, but my old 3.0tdi (tuned) felt quicker! You can supercharge the V8 and then it will be the car it should have been, but the SC kits are around £20k!

If you can, try and get a 2013 onwards if you do decide on a V6 as the earlier ones did have some gearbox issues, mainly sensors and mechatronics, which can have updated parts fitted and be fine.

Did your Porsche have the old Nikasil cylinder bore liners saga like the BMW 6 pots from the late 90s? I had a 328 sport with that. Or was it just under engineered cylinders?

 

[ScoobyDoo555]

Cheers Dave,

I've attempted today to secure a test-drive in an S5 with my local Audi dealer.... didn't go as well as hoped, as the poor lad (trainee) wanted to set me up in (a) a Sportback & (b) the NEW S5, so a diseasil. 10 out of 10 for enthusiasm though
Still, I've got a bit of time on my hands while running out the dreaded covid isolation, so later next week should be better

As for your comments, yes the V8 sounds brilliant, but I'm still on the fence about it - I just don't know. If it was down the wife, she'd go straight for the V6T - she also likes the styling.
But thanks for the "heads up" about the earlier ones with their issues - I'd read about it, but you get to the point where it's a little bit of info-overload!

The Porker - yeh, the 3.4, despite what the internet says, suffers from mostly liner-issues (a clash of metal materials, so the liners can drop!), but can also suffer from the D-chunking (ovaling of pistons) that dogs the later 3.6 variant that's found in the face-lifted 996 and the early iterations of the 997.1 - Porsche still don't acknowledge the issue exists, although I'm pretty sure there's STILL a class-action suit in the US about it all. However, by the time the 997.2 came out with a revised 3.8, it was all fixed. Funny that.
The problem was compounded by the first move to being water-cooled: the gist is that on the one bank (cylinders 4-6 IIRC), by the time the coolant is eventually pumped around #6, as it has to go past the other cylinders, the raised coolant temperatures renders the fluid somewhat useless - akin to cooling in series
Hartech (the company I used to get mine fixed) not only sort the liners, but also bore out the coolant channels, creating a larger flow space. It is EXPENSIVE, but totally worth it. If you go to Porsche, they'll charge you £15k for an identical engine to the one that borked.

So while I'm quite conversant with the folly of expensive engine rebuilds, I've no desire to repeat such endeavours - hence doing the homework on the S5

As for trying cars, the dealer does have a V6T in stock (I've seen in on their page! ), so I'll try that when I can calm the over-excitable trainee As for a V8, I might need to travel to meet or further a-field: I think the closest one for sale was about 40 mile away and I don't want to go there under false pretence (which I've found to be a problem - if you're honest with dealers, they don't want to know, but I don't like misleading people and wasting their time).

The beauty being is that I've got time on my side..... and with each month the Porsche keeps on increasing in value

Dan

 

[Dave Kwatro]

I'm guessing the S5s in the dealer will be the B9, which is another facelift, new dash/interior and different engine being turbocharged rather than supercharged. They are a fair bit different than the B8 V8 (V6 in sportback and cab) and B8.5 (V6).

Audi put V6T on the supercharged models! So don't let this fool you!

The later B9 models are also 8 speed torque converter full autos, but much better than the older 6 speed tip-tronics in the B8s! Some still prefer the DSG though and the supercharged engine with instant boost. Depends on you and the budget.

And yes, my S5 has increased in value too, nearly back to what I paid for it! As have a lot of cars, more so the top end models, due to pandemic supply shortages and the revised taxes on newer cars.

The V6 diesel is a good engine! 350bhp as standard! Not sure on what the tuners have got out of this yet! Bobby Singh Racing is the King of the VAG diesel tuning! He has over 500bhp from his B8 3.0tdi. But diesels, even though Audi swapped to diesel for all new S5s, will be the first to the graveyard of the internal combustion engines! Followed by the petrol.

The B8.5 CREC petrol engine is ULEZ compliant.

 

[Mars2k]

Hi All,

My name's Dan - based in the UK. Currently in a Porsche Carrera 4, but am looking to return to the Audi S-fold (had a modded B5 S4 Avant a while back). Why? I've had the Porsche 9 years, and while it's an epic car, it's the longest I've ever owned a car and I'm just looking for something different now. Hence the S5.
I don't do many miles and it's a daily driver in the countryside with some decent A-roads.

I'm not here to cause issues, so please take what I say as from the outsider's perspective, trying to get the lowdown on which car is right for him So V8 vs V6:

From what I've gathered so far, the V8's party-piece is "simply" the engine sound. Married to a manual box, it's kinda good. They seem quite "cheap" to buy (cheapest was £6k, granted, with 250k (miles) on the clock though!), although not the best idea to go in at that level possibly?
The things that go wrong are coking (?), high-pressure fuel pumps x 2, and possibly standard wear & tear items. Servicing is relatively standard as are parts. Tax isn't cheap, but insurance is (for me anyway! )
Due to it's age, the cabin will be missing out on some niceties, but I'm not interested in Nav as I'll be installing/using Apple CarPlay. Although it would be nice to see what is available for the V8.
The manual apparently likes the taste of the clutch, but the auto is a little more sympathetic towards it.
What's the S-tronic auto like though? I appreciate it won't be as "on it" as the DSG, but is it still responsive when you press the changer?
Although probably answered by my earlier comment, does teh V8 respond well to high miles? (as long as they're serviced and looked after?)

The V6 - newer, more modern cabin and toys, the "modability" to RS5 territory for little money, DSG box (so all the issues that come with that), the engine noise (with a suitable exhaust) - it appears more reliable thus far, although entry-prices for the V6 are a lot higher.

Running costs are similar although in the UK, the V8 will cost more to tax.

There appears to be various states of trim - the black edition and then "regular" (vorsprung and edition 1 being for the latest models) - what is the consensus on this?
What about optional extras? What are desirable things to have? B&O stereo over the Bose(?) - quite liked the Bose in my S4.
Do any of the extras have issues (such as sunroofs being leaky etc)

Modding is an interest, although we're not talking The Fast & The Furious! The Porsche is modded with some engine mods and pushes out similar to the V8, albeit a LOT lighter (some 200kg), I've also put a Dansk sports exhaust on it, so it's "meaty".
This appears easily mimicked on the S5 (regardless of engine), albeit it's not a cheap option - so perhaps look at a car with it already done?
I'm aware of the MRC boys etc from the S4 days too.

Minor mods also include the RS5-style grille, and maybe something to improve the stance.
The coilovers etc don't suffer from the RS-issues that dogged the B7 RS4 and the RS6 (from what I'm aware of) - so is this a popular upgrade?

The V8 does seem like a golden opportunity as it's one of the dying breed of cars - that said, is it one of those that I resign myself to having a car that's worth nothing at the time of selling? The Porsche has gone up in value from the day I bought it, which is nice, but ultimately an unrealistic impression.
The 2nd hand market in the UK is silly right now, and as such cars are over-valued anyway, but it would be nice to at least get something back at selling time

I'm trying to get to my local Audi dealer (Hereford) as they've got a v6 in stock to at least try. Then I can try the V8 - I'm in no mega-hurry as the Porsche needs to be sold first And time is on my side

Thanks for any inputs

Dan

Hi Dan, Ray here,
It just so happens I own a 2013 S Cabrio (US Premium Plus trim) and a 2014 RS5 Cabrio (Packed with everything you can put on it in the US) Bought the 2013 with 62K miles have put a few thousand miles on with only issues was thermostat and water pump. Both are S tronic. I like manuals as a rule but there is no reason to complain about these auto-manuals, they are very fast to shift and very positive through the gears in auto mode and give up nothing to a pure manual. If anything they are easier shifting, just a flick on the paddle (if you can find it in a turn). Did a stage 1 APR ECU tune on the 13 and wow was it worth it. Horsepower was up from 333 to 390 so a very hi value mode About $600 USD I don't track so just not going to tune any more than this.
The S5 ride is firm and spoarty and can be stiffened with a good selection of aftermarket parts if you want moare.
One solution to MMI system was putting in and RSNav upgrade this added some relevant upgrade to that system, larger more modern (touch) screen, android auto, carplay, access to larger music storage via USB google maps and any app you can put on an android table. This appends to MMI so you get all that plus all the other I mentioned. I could go on but I'm very very happy with that one. The 2013 S5 is a geat car it has aged well and I love driving it

Now for the 2014 RS. I just found this one 8 years old with 19K miles, perfect, pristine service record 0 blemishes virtually as new. I'm not bragging here I'm just amazed at what you can find out there. I was totally happy with the 2013 when I came across the 2014 I could not pass up the RS and now am selling S.
About the differences. Ride quality is much softer in the S, I would never have said that without the comparison to the RS which is much firmer and more direct. I cannot say if its because of milleage difference, and/or tire difference, 19" Michelin PilotSport all season 4 on the S or 20" Conti Extreme Contact on the RS, and/or model specific suspension differences I wouldn't know how to attribute differences to that mix but I'm positve the RS starts life stiffer. Another difference is th S has stock exhaust is much quiter in every thing it does. The RS has a center muffler delete and it just roars I'm putting the stock muffler back in to keep from pissing my neighbors off.
About the RS v8, you mentioned it was just about the sound, WRONG! This is a honey of engine 8500 redline and then there is the power. Some of the reviews you read talk about a lack of low end torque for a V8. That is somewhat true but still it starts life higher than the V6 untill you get into more radical tuning stages and it still redlines in the 6es without spending a lot of ca$h to pick up the extra 60 horses. Also never mentioned is engine braking, with this V8 you really know it when you hit that lower gear and getting into 1rst is like slamming on the brakes. The effect is immediate and getting into that lower gear will haul you down in And then there is the sound. This V8 is magical and that comes from a guy driving American V8s since I got my drivers license at the age of 14...which I have maintained with the help of a string of good attorneys (solicitors to you) for 54 years. BTW that was in Texas at a time where long flat open highways with very few people were the norm.
Now the V8 downside. Its thirsty, I drive aggressively and its still thirsty. Steadt state at 50-60 MPH = 17.5-18 MPG but single digits when you romp it which I do a lot. I'm not sure a modded V6 would be less so but my stage 1 modded V6 tune does get better milleage. Now about modding the V8, there is a ceiling that is very expensive to break through. An APR stage 1 ECU tune of $600 USD will bag you about 19HP. A JH motorsports tune of about $1000 will do about the same but will also re-map the S tronic and lower track times.. There are some supercharger kits out there or on the horizon but $$$$$.
To sum up:
The S5 is firm but softer than the RS . The S5 can be stiffened will lots of aftermarket goodies. V6 can be tuned relatively easily with ecu, superchager pulleys, intake and exhaust mods. It can approach the RS' HP but not its redline. I didn't mention wheels and tire sizing but these will max out smaller on the S. The S while sporty and fun to drive and responsive in every way might be easier to live with on a daily basis.
The RS starts life at the very max of what you can do an S5. Did I mention the 200 MPH speedometer? It tops out at about 180, I wonder if I would have time to look at fuel consupmtion driving at that speed. The RS is really sort of a beast. Also RSs are rather rare, about 1500 a year into the US I think. I see them as a solid move into the status of an exotic. In the US we are facing an end to V8s I'm betting a car like this RS will be one of the good ones to hang on to.
Your choice buy a "born to beasthood" of mod a daily drive to "beast adjacent"

 

[ScoobyDoo555]

Hi Ray,

Wow - thankyou for taking the time to write such a detailed response. The comparison between the S & RS is really useful. I didn't mean to cause any offence when saying about the V8 sound (if anything it was a little "witty", perhaps misplaced ). V8s in general in the UK are a not a common occurrence tbh, so personally, my only experience of them was in a 360 F1, Gallardo and an AM V8 Vantage, where let's be honest here, the sound is kind of "king"
My own cars have been V6 twin-turbo (previous Audi), Flat 4 boxers (2 heavily modded Subarus), a raft of 2L turbos, and the flat 6 in the Porsche, so V8s (and potential ownership) are new venture. So it's really useful to hear your thoughts and experiences Even the mpg doesn't put me off - I'm only getting 22 (at best) in the Porsche

Thanks also for the comparison between the transmissions - again, my experience of them was various DSGs, the Lambo had e-gear (irrc), and the 360 was F1. The rest were manuals, so not really a fair comparison. I did drive the 911 with tiptronic, which as far as I can tell, is the same in Audi speak. The S-tronic is audi's DSG.

I am a nerd, so I'm going to be delving deeper into the whole concept of RSNav too As an audio engineer and producer by trade, audio is a "thing" for me

I do get the whole - S vs RS thing: one is meant to be a development of where the other leaves off imho. I'm getting the general vibe that the S is easier to live with as a daily though (says the guy dailying a Porsche )

Thanks again - super useful

Dan