[Peter Ryles]

Hi Guys...
I currently own a 2011 B8 S5 3.0 tfsi, I've spent quite a bit of money on it upgrading it and a little disappointed with the results I've got. I have an upgraded air intake (CTS) Supercharger and Crank pulley upgrade (Awesome Gti) a heat exchanger upgrade (AWE) and the relevant software to accompany that along with a TCU map. The car has only 59K miles on it and standard produced 333bhp, with all these upgrades I was expecting 450bhp+ but when the car was put on the Dyno it was only producing 390 so I'm kind of disappointed with the results, has anyone else experienced this?.

 

[Dippy]

Is that 390 calculated engine or measured at the wheels?

 

[Peter Ryles]

Hey Dippy..
That's 390 awhp and converted it's 458 at the crank.
A B4 S4 on the same dyno with the same set up as myself produced 477 awhp so kinda confused. The tuning guys upped the torque limit etc and tinkered with the map a little but it's still at 390awhp. I got crazy heat soak at the start of all the upgrades and the air intake temp was 84° centigrade, with the heat exchanger fitted that's now under 50° and after 4 hard pulls on the dyno never went above 52° so that's definitely doing it's job which should equate to more power. Don't get me wrong now, the cars crazy quick and launches brilliantly, maybe I'm getting too caught up in the numbers game, just weird that S4 dyno'd 80 more than mine 🤔

 

[Dippy]

Do you have a before and after dyno graphs? Do you know what your drive ratio is (or pulley sizes)? What grade fuel was used? Has the TCU tune increased the redline?
I can't pretend to be any kind of expert but I suppose I know this platform fairly well and have seen quite a lot of dyno graphs. 390 whp is in the ball park for a stage 2 and the typical calculated engine power comes to around 475 bhp. I have never seen anything like 477 whp for this platform.

 

[Peter Ryles]

Hey Dippy..
That's 390 awhp and converted it's 458 at the crank.
A B4 S4 on the same dyno with the same set up as myself produced 477 awhp so kinda confused. The tuning guys upped the torque limit etc and tinkered with the map a little but it's still at 390awhp. I got crazy heat soak at the start of all the upgrades and the air intake temp was 84° centigrade, with the heat exchanger fitted that's now under 50° and after 4 hard pulls on the dyno never went above 52° so that's definitely doing it's job which should equate to more power. Don't get me wrong now, the cars crazy quick and launches brilliantly, maybe I'm getting too caught up in the numbers game, just weird that S4 dyno'd 80 more than mine 🤔

Do you have a before and after dyno graphs? Do you know what your drive ratio is (or pulley sizes)? What grade fuel was used? Has the TCU tune increased the redline?
I can't pretend to be any kind of expert but I suppose I know this platform fairly well and have seen quite a lot of dyno graphs. 390 whp is in the ball park for a stage 2 and the typical calculated engine power comes to around 475 bhp. I have never seen anything like 477 whp for this platform.

It's a forge supercharger pulley, not sure of the dimensions but the crank pulley upgrade is 190mm and I've only ever put BP Ultimate 97 Octane in it. Yes the TCU tune upped the redline to 7200rpm. The car was never dyno'd until the stage 2 was done on it so the 390awhp is all I have to go on.
The S4 had all APR parts on it and a full Miltek exhaust system and their own tune, apparently it's the dogs bollox but they charge a ridiculous amount for it. If you say that what I'm getting is what I should expect then I'm happy enough, I just couldn't get my head around the awhp of the S4. The tuners showed me the dyno readout of the S4 and 477 was what it was making at the wheels. My car is a completely different animal since I done the upgrades so I can't really complain too much lol.

 

[Dippy]

Likely the Forge pulley is about 57mm so that gives you a drive ratio of 3.33 which means that at the engine redline the supercharger will be at it's max 24,000 rpm. With your cooling upgrade and upgraded air intake I would expect up to 500 bhp engine on 99 RON, but of course whp depends on losses. I understand that tyres can have a significant impact. I also understood that on this platform the exhaust makes very little improvement to performance. I have also heard that a free-flow exhaust can actually reduce performance (due to lost back-pressure). But I have no idea if that's true or not - maybe you can investigate. Using only 97 RON will have a power hit - you'd probably find that most if not all of other stage 2 owners (myself included) always fill with 99 RON. That does assume that the ECU remap will advance timing to take advantage of the higher octane - maybe you should check that too.

 

[jnrdavo]

Just a obvious question did you have yours in dynamic mode (if you have the button)?

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[Peter Ryles]

Just a obvious question did you have yours in dynamic mode (if you have the button)?

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I did indeed and it was dyno'd in 4th gear in dynamic. I'm content enough now tho, raced a stock B8 S5 3.0 tfsi last night from a standing start and well lets just say he was nowhere to be seen lol, the difference was night and day! I let him have a drive in mine and he was like holy shit!!. I just got caught up in the numbers game but now I've seen and felt the difference the upgrades have made alls good.

 

[Peter Ryles]

Likely the Forge pulley is about 57mm so that gives you a drive ratio of 3.33 which means that at the engine redline the supercharger will be at it's max 24,000 rpm. With your cooling upgrade and upgraded air intake I would expect up to 500 bhp engine on 99 RON, but of course whp depends on losses. I understand that tyres can have a significant impact. I also understood that on this platform the exhaust makes very little improvement to performance. I have also heard that a free-flow exhaust can actually reduce performance (due to lost back-pressure). But I have no idea if that's true or not - maybe you can investigate. Using only 97 RON will have a power hit - you'd probably find that most if not all of other stage 2 owners (myself included) always fill with 99 RON. That does assume that the ECU remap will advance timing to take advantage of the higher octane - maybe you should check that too.

I'm in N.Ireland dippy and sadly 97 Ron is all that's available here unless you want to drive about 100 miles to get it which is pointless really. I had a comparison last night with a stock S5 and the difference is unreal so I think I'll just enjoy it now. Thx for your help mate it was much appreciated! 👍

 

[Dave Kwatro]

I was exactly the same as you! caught up on the numbers rather than how the car actually performed!

I am also stage 2 with just a CTS 187mm pulley and intake, everything else is stock, have messed around with the exhaust, but not expecting much from that, I was after the sound than performance from the exhaust.

I got 442bhp! and like you got 80C IATs, plus a warm day! So I upgraded the charge cooling system and went back to the dyno and on a cooler day! Then got 482bhp! BUT, BP ultimate isn't renowned for it's performance, just being expensive. I know NI doesn't have shell V power 99 or Tesco 99, but I think this could make the 20bhp difference! Fuels can make that difference.

You could try NF race formula octane booster or even their top level stuff, NF Ultra race concentrate, run it for 50 -100 miles, then go back on the dyno. You may need a map tweak to push up the timing as the knock sensor will only go as far as it is mapped to. With the price of fuel and the cost of octane boosters on top, it's probably not viable long term, but it may give you your numbers!?

I didn't really notice the difference of the extra 40bhp as on the road the extra cooling may have lowered the IATs anyway, but like you, I wanted the print out saying 480+

Across the pond, the US guys have got 506bhp from the later supercharged engine with just a remap and E85.

 

[Peter Ryles]

Hey Dave...

Are you getting those figures figures at the wheels?

 

[Dave Kwatro]

Hey Dave...

Are you getting those figures figures at the wheels?

These are estimated crank figures, could be more!? In the US, they tend to quote wheel power most of the time. But dynos can vary. The only way to compare 2 different cars with different maps/tuners is to run them on the same car. I've heard tyres can make a difference to power outputs.

Dyno days or visiting a different dyno can show up whether your figures are lower or higher.