[loc]

audiballin:

Withnail made a lot of sense. While the B&O adds further surround processing settings in cars with MMI/navigation compared to non-MMI cars, B&O always lacks (in both MMI and non-MMI cars) separate subwoofer adjustment settings.

The Audi sound system on the other hand does offer subwoofer adjustment settings, it would be logical that a pricier B&O would too (in Europe there are three sound system options: standard, Audi sound system and the priciest B&O - in the U.S. I guess Audi sound system - rumoured to be by Bose - is standard.)

 

[loc]

I believe its the same as one of the settings, you just don't have to option to change it. Which is weird because MMI is standard, so there should be no reason not to have that ability if you got B&O and didn't get nav.

Yes there is a very good reason: MMI is not standard. Only a radio is standard with MMI-like operating logic and screen. The actual MMI (that comes with navi) is a whole different beast and thus the B&O difference is technically quite reasonable.

The whole story:

Difference between standard radio Concert/Symphony and the optional DVD navigation's MMI controls in B8 platform Audi A4 and A5
http://www.geocities.com/a6retrofit/articles/a4a5realmmi.html

 

[loc]

Thanks for the clear up. Is the difference between the sound processing with MMI and that without MMI huge??

I haven't heard both so I wouldn't know if it is huge, but people have reported a difference. Without MMI/navi you won't get the full surround settings and the car processes/transfers audio analogically as opposed to digitally with MMI/navi which probably results in some audible difference.

 

[loc]

There are adjustments for bass, treble, balance etc in the MMI on my 2009 S5 with B&O. There's no equalizer, but there certainly are the basic controls mentioned above. I was just messing around with them tonight as a matter of fact!

I could be wrong on this one, but the point is that Audi sound system has a separate control for subwoofer too which the B&O does not?

 

[loc]

Jimmyz:

Well, bass pretty much covers the subwoofer. It's not as good as a dedicated sub control, but close enough for me.

I guess the main point is illustrated well in Withnails posting:

Loc is right, the fact that the much cheaper 'Audi Sound System' gets a subwoofer dial (seperate from Bass) and the B&O gets nothing, is why I am annoyed..

I feel generally my B&O system struggles to deliver Bass.
My door speakers seem to be doing most of the work (then at higher volumes start vibrating - natch), whereas my subwoofer never seems to be make much effort.

Since the subwoofer by default in B&O setups seems set quite low, with the front door speakers doing most of the bass, a dedicated subwoofer setting would be useful for those who might want to try and beef up the rear bass without overloading the fronts.

 

[loc]

However, someone called B&O, and asked if it was even possible to have those symphony type options on the car without the digital bus, and they said it was possible, but Audi didn't put it in. I understand that if you don't get nav, that you get a stripped out version of MMI, but there is still a controller knob, and still an LCD screen, and the bus system supports it, so I don't see why Audi didn't put those features in non nav cars with B&O. Maybe it was too expensive, and they didnt bother to spend the time since most people getting B&O would probably be getting nav anyways. I just hope the B&O sounds as good, if not better than the HK Logic 7 in my dads S550, and in my buddys new 335 BMW.

Such a phone call to B&O is news to me. If the information they gave on the phone is correct, it is a good question why things happened like they did.

The missing setting (in cars without MMI), as far as I know, is the one which allows the user to select front/rear/driver bias for the surround setup. In cars with MMI, the audio is transferred from the radio/CD/AMI modules to the B&O amplifier via the MOST fiber-optic cabling digitally. In cars without MMI, it goes as line-out analogue audio from the radio to the B&O amplifier (four lines I think?). Apparently there are two versions of the B&O amp, one for cars with MMI and one for without.

I always assumed the reason was that processing the analogue signals from the radio would have required additional components or higher-end logic or some such in the non-MMI B&O amp, so the surround bias option isn't available for that reason, but that the amp with the digital MOST transport had the necessary logic on board. Of course it is possible that it is just product differentiation by Audi.

In any case, the confirmed analog vs. digital audio transport certainly can account to some difference in how they sound.

 

[loc]

I guess so... I must admit, that for most cars I have driven, changing the bass was suffucuent enout to get the sub going strong, but I guess this is not true for the B&O, my bad. I guess the B&O was designed to play high fidelity music, like classical or soft classics, and I am sure it sounds great with those on. I guess they didn't realize youngins like me will be blasting TI and Yung Jeezy, lol.

It should be easy enough to confirm. Just transfer all audio balance to the rear (thus effectively shutting down the front speakers) and see what you think of the bass - you should then just have the rears and the sub running.

The argument that B&O was designed to be a well-rounded package with overall good quality in mind instead of disproportionate bass is of course a good one, and one that has been tossed around quite a bit. It is probably very true.

But I guess the general concensus seems to gravitate towards the opinion that, yes it is a well rounded high quality package, but if it lacks one thing it could deliver more bass - and dedicated settings might help.

 

[loc]

Does the B&O without MMI get the surround dial, though? I think it does?

 

[loc]

I think they are missing the surround option where there is a dial to select the amount of surround sound processing that takes place. The front/all/driver is a different option (although I dont know if that is present or missing on non MMI).

Yeah, I know they are different options, but I am under the impression that it is the front/all/driver that is missing from non-MMI cars.

Who can clarify?

 

[loc]

Ok, I've read all the posts but I'm still very confused
I've ordered an S5 with B&O but without MMI, does this mean I won't be able to control bass, treble, balance, etc?

If so, then it sucks... on my old A4 -06 with the biggest speaker-package I always had the bass at +4 and the treble at +2.

I really have no need for the MMI nav, but now I'm considering to order it just so that I can use me B&O

Here is what the SOUND menu will look like in an A5/S5 without MMI but with B&O:

- SOUND
-- TREBLE (dial)
-- MID (dial)
-- BASS (dial)
-- BALANCE (dial)
-- FADER (dial)
-- DSP PREMIUM
--- SURROUND (on|off)
--- GALA (list)
-- VOLUME SETTINGS
--- TRAFFIC PROGRAMME (dial)
--- IN-CAR ENTERTAINMENT FADER (dial)

http://www.a5oc.com/forums/showthread.php/mmi-and-ais-2717/index.html?t=2717

So yes, you will get BASS and TREBLE dials. What you will NOT get are surround adjustments (just surround on or off, apparently - in MMI cars you get a dial where you can adjust how much surround processing you want) and you will not be able to adjust surround bias (front, all, driver), which is only available with MMI.

Neither with MMI or non-MMI will B&O get separate subwoofer control, which some people feel is missing, since the lesser Audi Sound System does get a separate subwoofer control dial.

 

[loc]

BTW: That TuffLittleUnit's fine posting which I quoted and linked above finally put to rest what the B&O settings differences are in cars with MMI or without:

- Cars without MMI get only surround on/off, with MMI you get a dial to adjust how much surround processing

- Cars with MMI GALA is just on/off, but without MMI there is a list?

- Cars without MMI don't get the option to set surround bias (front, all, driver), MMI cars do

Otherwise looks pretty identical from what I recall. Do MMI cars have MID setting or just BASS and TREBLE?

With Audi sound system you apparently get additionally:

- Subwoofer - with dial
- GALA - with dial (although this is traditional speed-based GALA, not with microphone)

 

[loc]

Good to hear. In you case, if you are going for the B&O no matter what, choosing navi or not choosing navi will not affect available bass adjustments.

Some theoretically audible difference in sound on B&O with and without navi has been reported (well, at least surround sound should have a difference since without navi some processing possibilities are missing), so if you are picky about your sound maybe try to get a chance to hear both and see if you want to add navi.

Otherwise, unless you care deeply about B&O surround sound settings that come with the MMI/navi, probably no need to get the navi in your case.

(Once again this tired old link for anyone not yet read upon this, technical reasons for the difference explained:

Difference between standard radio Concert/Symphony and the optional DVD navigation's MMI controls in B8 platform Audi A4 and A5
http://www.geocities.com/a6retrofit/articles/a4a5realmmi.html)

 

[loc]

I also tried out the B&O system today, and my first conclusion is, that it is way off (down!) from the quality level of the Bose system in my previous S4!

Is the car in some other SOUND FOCUS mode other than ALL? If in DRIVER or FRONT mode (see the B&O DSP settings), it might explain your experience. Some like the DSP processing a lot (and feel using DRIVER or FRONT is the only way to really experience this system), some don't (like the purity of the sound more). Also try playing with the SURROUND dial to see if less or more helps.

Also, GALA ON/OFF turns on/off the microphone-based equalizing so you may want to play with that as well.

Some more ideas to consider anyways:

How do you measure quality level? Some seem to feel the B&O lacks bass, apparently Bose is not very balanced but does do plenty of bass, maybe you miss the extensive bass? The A5 B&O is reported, when working, to be quite balanced which some attribute to lack of quality (since the bass isn't thumping over), others as a sign of quality.

Having said that, I still agree that B&O is probably, taking in all the commentary, all in all weakest in the subwoofer (and related settings), but people having broken amps (tinting can break them due to water spillage) or subs not working from factory, or bad DSP settings etc. are giving the system more bad reputation than it probably really deserves.

Also, the sound source must be considered. Radio never sounds very good. MP3s can be muddied by nature of low bitrates. But you said you used CDs so I doubt this was a problem for you, though.