How fast are you shifting? The fly wheel in this car is very light, probably a lot lighter than you are used to, which means that the tach may fall a lot faster than your last car. Speeding up your shifts may solve your problem, especially at low rpms. Maybe it is because my last car had a touchy electronic throttle, but on both of my extended test drives around conjested nj "suburbs" I found 1 -> 2 shifts to be glorious and smooth without ever jarring the salesman. I did find a few launches to be touchy because I am not used to the engagement point on the clutch.
I am not saying you don't know how to drive, I am saying you may be still applying your old habits to new technology. Take a look at what RPM = MPH in both 1st and 2nd gear. And make a conscious effort to match them. You will get a sense of the timing, and then you will fall into harmony.
1 -> 2 Shifts are like sleeping with a woman, the first few times are rough, but once you figure out the rhythms, it is bliss, unless you want it to be rough...
confused: ) but essentially, I can accept the gearchange quality as it is - it's the process of driving in only one gear (i.e. first) that's annoying me!The Clutch Delay Valve makes sure the engine rpms match the speed before the clutch engages fully. It wears out the clutch faster and makes the car feel soft. It is definitely easier to drive, but IMO makes it less fun. An M3 doesn't have a clutch delay valve because it makes it impossble to spin the tires when shifting and greatly reduces feedback to the driver. The delay valve was the #1 reason, for me, to not choose a 335xi. There are days when that smoothness would be nice, but in general, as long as it is just me in the car, I like being able to almost lose grip of the steering wheel or being able to chirp the tires on the 1-2 shift!BMW seems to accomplish the same with a little item called the Clutch Delay Valve, which is inline between the slave cylinder and clutch. Looks like Audi uses electronics instead. Either way, it's very frustrating for someone who truly knows how to operate a clutch.
...Personally I found that my driving style meant I didn't have this problem and I can easily drive to avoid the problem... I have also explained this to guys on the forum... However, they have convinced me that this is not the point... The point is if you want to pull away with lower revs, you can't without balancing the clutch to bring them down and risk stalling. Therefore I support this thread.The last car I had was a 2003 Nissan Maxima with drive-by-wire. The first 10000 miles I had the car I was terrible. My previous car had a daul friction clutch and super light fly wheel and I used to have shifts smoother than my gf's skin. What I learned over time with the drive by wire was to using the old let clutch out and push gas in didn't work. The S5 is a performance car, and isn't going to control clutch engagement like a 3 or 5 series BMW. You are in control, but sadly the drive-by-wire electronic throttle is not what you are used to. Here is what I learned which went against my normal teachings:
1a. Depress Clutch extremely fast
1b. Let off gas completely when clutch is past engagement point (Engine will rev up if you let off too late, and the car will slow down or jerk a little if you let off too soon)
2. Change the gears
3a. Release Clutch and try to have the engagement point catch the right RPMs as you shift. You may hold it at the engagement point for about half a second or so to let the rpms match perfectly
3b. Now this is the hardest part and is what is the biggest pain:
While releasing the clutch, just as it is ABOUT to reach the engagement point, press in and HOLD the gas pedal maybe 10% of the way (no matter what speed you are going). Key here is to not press it in too much or else the electronic throttle is going to think you are blipping the throttle for a spirited downshift, and therefore will rev the engine like crazy. Also letting off the pedal if you think you pressed it too much is worse than just holding it. If you are holding it in too far the throttle will reduce itself while engaging (unless it is almost on the floor), when you let off the gas the throttle will fall quickly and then you will end up really jerking the car.
4. At the engagement point begin pressing the gas more (smoothness is key here) while Releasing the rest of the Clutch quickly.
Sound close to what you do now? I am sure it is, but learning to press the gas in gently at that engagement point took a long time to become second nature, and will make all the difference.
I don't think people "can't drive" or that I have "better skills", I think that this cars electronics are new and after getting used to the terrible implementation by Nissan for this, I can share the experience. I don't blame you for being irritated, it still irritated me some days when I sold my maxima, but, I did learn how to make it work, and yes I still jerked the car some starts when I wasn't paying attention. Especially in stop/start traffic when I was getting frustrated by people cutting in front of me when I was leaving extra room between the car in front of me so I wouldn't have to come to a complete stop.
Hi Ian,...Personally I found that my driving style meant I didn't have this problem and I can easily drive to avoid the problem... I have also explained this to guys on the forum... However, they have convinced me that this is not the point... The point is if you want to pull away with lower revs, you can't without balancing the clutch to bring them down and risk stalling. Therefore I support this thread.
Thanks Ian, but next time youre out in "The Black Beast" try the same experiment when the car is rolling at different speeds and you'll see that the software anti stall is speed related.i.e. as speed increases two things happen.OK peeps, for those of you who have read this and other threads, you will know that I don't have an issue with the smoothness/anti-stall thingy... although I DO reckognise it as a problem. To cut a long story short, my driving style is such that I use relatively high revs when moving off out of habit from having a car with a lightened flywheel before this one.
NOW HERE'S MY APRAISAL...
I spent some time today in rush-hour traffic and had plenty of opportunity to play with different driving styles and different revs etc... In summary...
I DO NOT THINK A SOFTWARE FIX WILL WORK.
It is true, the anti-stall avoids revs in the range between tickover ~800rpm and about 1,500rpm by lifting the revs automatically to 1,500 when you touch the throttle thus making it impossible to select anything lower (other than tickover) when moving off. UNFORTUNATELY THIS IS NECESSARY... ...I tried carefully dragging the revs down whilst moving off by careful clutch control and as soon as it hits 1,400 the engine bogs down. This is NOT a software function, but a function of having a relatively light flywheel. There is nothing that can be done to change this, other than changing the flywheel spec.
So, the S5 has a revvy sporty engine and puts power to the wheels well helped in part by the light flywheel. To avoid bogging and stalling issues, they have introduced software assistance. The other option is to have a heavier flywheel without the bogging and stall problems, but which is heavier, lower on power, slower to respond and less free-revving. Not a good option!
Good luck Graham with taking this up, and please people register your name as recognising the problem... Audi should listen. However I'm not sure there's a solution.
