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Discussion Starter #1
I've heard feedback from guys with the 2.0T Stasis chip and they are very happy, however it is approx $1500-1600 CAD ($1295 US + 1 hour labor).

Anyone have experience with the GIAC tuning? Apparently GIAC developed the tuning for Stasis and Stasis simply stands behind the warranty, however the GIAC tuning is about $700 for the 2.0T

Too me, the APR tuning looks pretty peaky. I'm just wondering how it stands up to the GIAC since I'm now debating between the two since they are priced economically.

I like the Bluefin stats as well, however, unless you are located in the UK it's not worth it since for EVERY TYPE of tuning you have to open up the ECU by drilling out the chastity bolts and send in the ECU for programming. All tuners include new oem chastity bolts so that it appears to any dealer that nothing has been tampered with.

Can anyone elaborate? Thoughts?
 

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I can only speak of my experience. I went with APR mainly because my Audi salesperson (also a car enthusiast) has ongoing experience withtheir software. The remap is definitely worth it IMHO. It adds even more torque and really helps out the higher part of each gear and does not adversly affect gas mileage either.
 

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Both GIAC and APR started close to the same time (1990's). The big difference back then was APR (Audi Performance Racing) was concentrating on their Stage2 & 3 turbo systems while GIAC was strictly computer tuning on various platforms that involved a turbocharger. Back then, there was limited resources (MTM, ABT, Neuspeed and Wettenhauer) for tuners.

Today, APR and GIAC are pretty much brought up everytime a turbo Audi is involved. There are some others out there pushing the envelope but the top two have their act together after 15+ years.

When I was having my 98' Passat 1.8T chipped, we spent a couple of hours trying various programs from GIAC. My tuner (in San Jose, CA) was on his cell and computer as Garrett Lim (owner of GIAC, located in Irvine some 350 miles south of us) was downloading new tuned parameters; I had my laptop onboard with the VAG-COM recording data and send it back to him. This is tuning at it's finest.

While we never got the thing to tune correctly (the AEB motors were the first 1.8T's and did not have a IC pressure sensor), we did fairly well for what it was worth. I learned a lot that day and felt GIAC provided some GREAT service on the fly.

APR was the first to do some innovative things such as the aforementioned Stage2 and Stage3 system using their own manifold, but in the chip-tune area, they did something nobody else did: provide a method to switch between stock programming and modified programming and even a race mode/high-octane mode (using the cruise controls back then.) That was key for some of us 'smog-sensitive' types in California.

Either way you can't go wrong with these two. Just my wooden nickels worth.
 

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Both GIAC and APR started close to the same time (1990's). The big difference back then was APR (Audi Performance Racing) was concentrating on their Stage2 & 3 turbo systems while GIAC was strictly computer tuning on various platforms that involved a turbocharger. Back then, there was limited resources (MTM, ABT, Neuspeed and Wettenhauer) for tuners.

Today, APR and GIAC are pretty much brought up everytime a turbo Audi is involved. There are some others out there pushing the envelope but the top two have their act together after 15+ years.

When I was having my 98' Passat 1.8T chipped, we spent a couple of hours trying various programs from GIAC. My tuner (in San Jose, CA) was on his cell and computer as Garrett Lim (owner of GIAC, located in Irvine some 350 miles south of us) was downloading new tuned parameters; I had my laptop onboard with the VAG-COM recording data and send it back to him. This is tuning at it's finest.

While we never got the thing to tune correctly (the AEB motors were the first 1.8T's and did not have a IC pressure sensor), we did fairly well for what it was worth. I learned a lot that day and felt GIAC provided some GREAT service on the fly.

APR was the first to do some innovative things such as the aforementioned Stage2 and Stage3 system using their own manifold, but in the chip-tune area, they did something nobody else did: provide a method to switch between stock programming and modified programming and even a race mode/high-octane mode (using the cruise controls back then.) That was key for some of us 'smog-sensitive' types in California.

Either way you can't go wrong with these two. Just my wooden nickels worth.
Highly informative post - thank you for sharing... :)
 

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MTM has the most aggressive power improvement claims. Going from 211 hp to 270 hp with just a chip re-flash leaves me a bit skeptical. You would really have to up the boost significantly to get that kind of gain.

Having said that I do subscribe to their Facebook page and they regularly update it with information about project cars they are working on. The company itself seems quite legit to me.
 

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Well it is easy to increase HP in a turbo car. You propably can gain 20HP per psi.
I am still very cautious because all the other turners require the removal of the ECU stating that the '10 encryption cannot/or has not been cracked. I emailed MTM's US dealer about that but have not received and answer back. If it works through the ODBII port I will definitely get it.
 

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I think you have to remove the ECU regardless of the tuner. I thought I read that the APR software ups the boost from 11psi to 19 psi but I'm not sure. I know actual gains are also dependent on the fuel you use as well. So maybe you have to run 100 octane fuel to get those gains.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
A5AFTERB5

Thanks for the meaningful feedback, much appreciated.

Schwabe, thanks....Looks like MTM is 270HP, 290TQ. Same price point as GIAC and APR, around $700 all in. Interesting that they claim you can flash through the port though...that's a substantial claim seeing as I just talked to the Stasis rep face to face last week and he claims no one can do that yet (including them who are aligned with Audi dealerships)

Guess the post should be APR vs. GIAC vs. Stasis vs. MTM....not Bluefin as they don't yet appear to be offering the software for the 2010's.
 

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This the response I received from Hoppenmotorsport, the US MTM distributor:

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 3:50 PM
To: Groz Dominic
Subject: MTM 270hp flash

Hello Dominic,

Thank you for your interest in the MTM Product Line. Here are the answers to your questions.

Does this flash for the A5 20.T TFSI work on 2010 model year cars? Does it work
through the ODBII port or does the ECU need to be removed to be flashed?
Yes the software is for the 2010 models. The software is loaded directly through the OBDII port.

Please let me know if I can answer any additional questions for you.

Best Regards,
Mike Hoppen

Joe Hoppen Motorsport
6245 Clark Center Ave. Unit M
Sarasota, FL 34238
(941) 924-6380
www.hoppenmotorsport.com
 

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Discussion Starter #11
MTM Tuning

Interesting, because that's the exact opposite response I got from MTM's only Canadian supplier, Horchaus

"Even if you were in Montreal, for this type of vehicle, we need to
program the EEPROM via the ECU directly. It can't be done, as we speak,
via the OBD II port. Maybe eventually, we will manage to do this the
way we are doing some earlier versions of ECU (like the A4 B7) that could be
done via the OBD II port. If you can send me your ECU, I will send it to you the next day. It should be plug and play! The cost of the update is 700 CAD + GST. I will send back your ECU at no cost for you. I did the update on my car (an A4) and it is really worth it. The car is much more responsive and fun to drive."

Seems dodgy that isn't even consensus on how to do the work!!
I think I am leaning towards GIAC these days to be honest.......
 

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i also emailed the Florida MTM dealer (hoppen), havent gotten a response yet, im curious to know more info about it. On their website, it says the software can be self installed at home and they offer support over the phone during the install. Anyone else know the warranty implications of going with MTM?
 

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Thats what my dealer told me today, it depends on the VIN # for 2010s, some software isn't available yet
 

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For us, there is no contest.

GIAC does software, and only software. Compared to the other brands, they have a much broader and deeper product offering for German vehicles, displaying their status as the most technologically advanced software programmers for Bosch and Siemens fuel injection systems.

We were GIAC's first distribution partner back in 1995, and Garrett and I together brought many "firsts" to market, such as the Mk1 TT 1.8T software and the Mk4 1.8T software. GIAC was established as a software leader even before most of the other companies had even been founded.

Here is a dyno sheet showing what the GIAC software adds on top of our B8 2.0T hardware (B8 A4 has same 2.0T engine as B8 A5):



Check out our webpage for more info:

http://awe-tuning.com/pages/shared/part_detail.cfm?PMaI=1&PMoI=50&PEI=25&PP=a5_20t_chips.cfm&PPT=Chips&IL=a520t_giac


Why GIAC?

1. GIAC has the most experience of any US tuner reprogramming Bosch Motronic. GIAC reprograms Audi/VW/Porsche/BMW/Mercedes/Fiat/Citroen destined for both US and German markets.

2. GIAC only writes ECU software and does not lose R&D time on developing exhausts, suspension, turbo kits, air filters, etc.

3. GIAC takes a base program from a new ECU (starting in their computer lab, using five dedicated networked computers) and completely disassembles out important functions using extremely complex engineering software. This is the same software used for the development of these ECUs by the manufacturer. When needed, GIAC emulates in real time with a professional engineering emulator, which allows 6 bit triggering and the ability to capture virtually any event while they run an ECU on a workbench.

4. GIAC then takes that source code and loads it into GIAC proprietary software "SHW version 8.02", where they can correctly modify any settings in the ECU. This makes GIAC different because they do not use commercial chip modifying software which can radically limit the tuning freedom needed to make a factory quality program. With a factory quality product, you will get silky smooth performance with stable power. GIAC can rewrite the code in SHW to modify anything.

5. GIAC designs and engineers in house all of their own printed circuit boards for encryption using advanced CAD software. They also write all of their own programs for encryption. This allows GIAC to get product to market much faster for a large variety of cars. It also protects GIAC software from increasingly common piracy found in the industry today. GIAC encrypts all of their chips to protect the cutting edge programming techniques they use.

6. GIAC's close ties with Bosch Gmbh ensures that their chips are state of the art.
 

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Todd,

I heard that the Stasis software found at dealerships are less tuned compared to the GIAC because of warranty purposes. Is this true?
 

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Todd,

I heard that the Stasis software found at dealerships are less tuned compared to the GIAC because of warranty purposes. Is this true?
From what I gather, yes, this is true.

Why, I do not know.

GIAC has never damaged/blown an engine or turbo with any of their production based software due to overly aggressive or faulty programming.

Stasis has a sales program sold through new car dealers (as do we). Stasis also offers a warranty on the vehicle when purchasing their GIAC based flash. This warranty covers the vehicle in case the dealer cannot get Audi to cover the vehicle. This "backup" warranty seems to be one of the reasons Stasis pricing is higher than the normal GIAC flash.

I suppose since Stasis would be on the hook for a voided factory warranty, they are trying to be ultra conservative with their performance products so as to tip in their favor the chances of Audi not blaming the performance products for problems.

For the record, we have several dozen new car dealers that sell A.W.E. Tuning performance products and also do GIAC flashing on site. All these new car dealers keep the customer warranties intact if the products are sold through the dealership.
 
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