Anyone using Shell V power on a tuned petrol engine?

6312 Views 49 Replies 10 Participants Last post by Dave Kwatro, Jul 21, 2021

Dave Kwatro

Discussion Starter · May 25, 2021 (Edited)

You may want to grab a brew or beer, then read this.

Shell, last month (April) 2021) revised it's blend of V power with Dynaflex giving more cleaning abilities and 4% more power.

Great, that sounds good! Right? Erm, maybe, I don't have any proof yet, but bare with me.

I have a tuned S5 3.0 V6 Supercharged. It was remapped 2 years ago on Shell V power. Tuners recommend using Tesco Momentum 99 when remapping as it gives the best results on reducing timing pulls due to it being souped up with Ethanol whereas VPower was other additives to increase the octane.

I believe VPower to be slightly superior over Momentum mainly due to its cleaning etc, where as Momentum is said to get you those extra few bhps on the dyno!?

Anyway, I'm not getting into 'that' debate shell Vs Tesco. This is different, I think.

I've been filling with Vpower for the past month or so, sometimes with the odd fill of Tesco. I didn't really see a difference in performance, maybe Tesco had a 'sharper' edge to it than Vpower. I also found mpg seemed slightly lower on Tesco.

BUT!

Since last month, I have found my S5 to running sweet and seemed like it was pulling harder. Now I work from home, real everyday driving isn't comparable as driving the same route to and from work, so it may be placebo as I'm not driving as much, so just enjoying driving. But like I say it seemed to be driving very well like someone had tinkered with my ECU map.

I was having a blast when all of a sudden, the power went like it does when traction control kicks in, but I now always turn my traction control to sport (Half off) since the S5's power will spin all 4 wheels. So now when driving spiritedly, I do a quick cockpit check/change to exhaust flaps fully open, Traction to Sport, Auto start stop off, and Gearbox in sport manual.

Going back to the power loss. It started on the gear change into 3rd with WOT. Pressed the throttle a few times, nothing, then the power came back to normal. It did it once more on the drive and this was after driving for around an hour. No CEL lights or anything. Checking with VCDS gave P0089 Valve for fuel metering - implausible signal, P2279 Leak in air intake system - intermittent, P310B Fuel pressure outside Specification on low pressure side! Bowlocks!? I've read from the guys in the US that this is common on stage 2 and it's the tank fuel pump not keeping up with demand. Also going back to stock tune, the fuel pressure wasn't an issue as the demand is lower. But the Low pressure fuel pump should regulate at 5 bar, mine went to 7.3 bar!? so I would have thought a high pressure would be ok as it would still be supplying fuel? Anyway, according to the guys who have had this, the fuel pressure drops, then over pumps giving the 7.3 bar. The solution was to replace the tank fuel pump, but I'm not sure. My fuel system appears to be running fine and the fact the pump can do 7.3bar leads me to think it can supply enough fuel?

Still with me? In the US E85 (85% Ethanol) fuel can be used and it's equivalent octane rating is the same as race fuel, up at 105 (not sure if this is US rating). Also when running on with Ethanol the mpg goes down and a higher volume of fuel is used so the fuel pumps are working harder, hence the high pressure fuel pump upgrades like Autotech's HPFP piston upgrade.

Back to me. I went out again in the car and it pulled power again under WOT in 2nd gear. The fuel was V power and low level in the tank. It doesn't cut power every time. And no fault logs in VCDS since the first time it did this power cut.

I've been researching and pricing up the tank fuel pump as last resort to cure this problem. But last week, I refilled with Tesco and not filled with Tesco for the past 2 maybe 3 fills. Been on a decent drive, no power cuts, no fuel pressure codes in VCDS, but the power doesn't feel as sharp as the shell stuff now!?

Only time will tell and if I refill again with shell to see if the performance improves and if I get power cuts again!? I will obviously update.

But it's only with the guys in the US talking about needing to upgrade the fuel pump to flow more fuel which is what high ethanol fuels need, I looked at Shell's website and they revised their V power blend in April which is when I got this fault. The car has been as I said at stage 2 for 2 years with no problems!

Also September this year the UK government has announced ALL unleaded fuels are to contain 10% ethanol in the fuels (E10). It is E5 (5%0 at the moment. So will this aafect us with Ethanol demanding more volume? If this is true why doesn't the Tesco 99 give me fuel cuts it it's octane is upped by use of ethanol.

This is my car saga at the moment and not conclusive if it is the fuel blend or an actual issue with my car. But I do want to try Shell again as the 4% extra power, I think was there on my car!

I'm going for a little rolling road run to check my car's performance/health in a week or 2, so don't want another issue as before I had a charge cooler issue when mapping my car.

Fingers crossed it was a glitch. I'll continue with my 'testing' of Tesco Momentum and Shell.

If any of you can add to my findings or suspicions, please do let me know!

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Dave Kwatro

Discussion Starter · #41 · Jul 19, 2021

I was low on fuel, again, light on. Floored it on the motorway and it went into limp mode with just the EPC light on. Engine was running smooth, just no boost. The supercharger wouldn't come in, no boost according to my FIS control, scrolled down in the FIS to fuel pressure and that was normal at 5.2bar low side and 128bar on the high side, intake temp was only 51 C as I had the charge coolant pump running full in this hot weather.

Got my FIS control running properly the other week, but I don't drive much as working from home, but it is really good, especially when something happens like limp mode as you can check the stats instantly reading from the CAN-bus. Exhaust and cats were at 750 C. The EPC light hasn't come on before and the engine light has never been on.

Came off the motorway, turned off and on, all back to normal.

Got some expensive V power fuel (£1.51 now!!!) Pulled like a plane or train, whichever is the best analogy for zooming towards the horizon.

! Ran VCDS and no faults. Guessing the EPC light is more a plug or coil pack miss fire or possibly a gap in fuel supply as it only had 10 miles left, oops.

Even though the 3.0 SC V6 runs hot, or seems too, this hot weather doesn't seem to affect performance.

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Smokey Joe

· #42 · Jul 19, 2021

So Dave, intake air temps. Have you seen any really high temps out on the road? What's your opinion on the charge cooler upgrade now?

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Dave Kwatro

Discussion Starter · #43 · Jul 20, 2021

Smokey Joe said:
So Dave, intake air temps. Have you seen any really high temps out on the road? What's your opinion on the charge cooler upgrade now?

Since fitting the FIS, I haven't been on a long drive so not got heat soak, well only after being parked. I've only done 30-45mins driving with some blasting on the motorway and it got to around 65 C. But when I've been parked up and come back to the car, it's been at 75-80 C! But as soon as I start the car and drive it does drop quickly to around 60-65C. On WOT it does initially drop by about 10C as the air rushes in and then starts to slowly climb as as it gets towards the redline. But the conclusion is, it's not hitting 80C as it did on the rolling road, but we did drive there, then wait a while, whilst it's strapped down. Then it's only run a little on the rolling road before going for it, so the heat soak won't have time to cool off. I reckon if the car was ran with some throttle to let the air in, but no heat producing boost for longer, then you might have a chance. But I think the pump will only run when on the throttle, maybe with boost, so unless you do the pump mod, it's not going to get chance to cool down.

From my limited drives, it seems to settle around 60C and drop initially when on WOT, but not seen the dirty 80C IATs, yet!

Got a universal heat exchanger on order, so will fit this and see what this does! For what it is and it does seem that we only experience limiting IATs on the rolling road, in the summer, I don't want to spend loads on a charge rad. The one I've ordered is the same as Merc racing was offering before they started to make specific rads for the 3.0T. I'm going with the stack route. I emailed a few places and it's basically £400+ for a big replacement rad. On Audizine, the stacked method appears to be just as good! The Jag XKR uprated rad, as far as I can tell is just a single pass. The uni rad I've ordered is a twin pass so the coolant has a longer trip/route on the cooling stage. For £145 for the rad, it's worth a punt! Most only went with a single large rad for aesthetics and a bit more cooling power. The combined surface area of the stacked route I'm going for is pretty much the same as the single large rad, so in theory it should provide the same cooling and stacked will also provide a 4 pass route.

I do want to try the rolling road again once it's fitted, just to see, but also want to wait until Autumn to get the best cooling for a map tweak.

Plus all fuels are going to E10 in September, so a remap maybe beneficial!?

Might get more power as the guys do in the US using E85.

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Smokey Joe

· #44 · Jul 20, 2021

Ah that's interesting Dave. So you are piggybacking another charge cooler presumably on the top side of the crash bar?
I'm sure that would do the trick.
Any idea where you'll source some hoses from or will you just wait until it arrives and have a play?

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Dave Kwatro

Discussion Starter · #45 · Jul 20, 2021

Yeah, leaving the OE rad in, then putting the Uni rad on top. I'll gauge the position once I've got it, but there is only about 330mm from the top of the OE rad to the top where the slam panel cover is. So I'll see if the uni rad is the most exposed to air flow directly on top of the OE rad or better right at the top.

I'm going to get some 19mm aluminium piping (as you can get all sorts of sizes and bends etc on Ebay) and make the connections with straight hose as there will need to be a 180 degree bend out of the top of the OE rad into the bottom of the Uni rad, so don't want a hose to kink on that sharp 180 bend. Going to assess once I get the rad and what room is available. Might get some aluminium MIG wire to weld the pipes and mount points in the middle of the Uni rad as the mounts are top and bottom, so then I can bolt straight to the crash bar like the big single rads. But we'll see what the final fit is like after assessing and trial fits.

But researching the big rad kits, there is only so much cooling done upfront that the intercoolers in the supercharger then become the limiting factor! No point in spending thousands on a mahoosive charge rad when the small SC intercoolers still have a limit on how much heat they can soak out of the heated boost.

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Smokey Joe

· #46 · Jul 20, 2021

Looking forward to seeing how this turns out. 👍

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Dave Kwatro

Discussion Starter · #47 · Jul 20, 2021

Me too!

Ps, the rear caliper covers are nearing final stages! Just need to get the samples cut and trial fit them

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cadguy77

· #48 · Jul 20, 2021

Dave Kwatro said:
Me too!

Ps, the rear caliper covers are nearing final stages! Just need to get the samples cut and trial fit them

(excited face)

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TonyP

· #49 · Jul 20, 2021

So pulled the error codes tonight, and it's the same as last time:

Code:

15074 - Cylinder Disabling
          P130A 00 [096] - -
          Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 57111 km
                    Date: 2021.07.18
                    Time: 11:06:20

                    Engine RPM: 6902.50 /min
                    Normed load value: 100.0 %
                    Vehicle speed: XX km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 89 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 32 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 13.789 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
                    Misfires per 1000 revolutions of cyl. 1 intake manif. injection: 0
                    Misfires per 1000 revolutions of cyl. 4 intake manif. injection: 0
                    Misfires per 1000 revolutions of cyl. 3 intake manif. injection: 500
                    Misfires per 1000 revolutions of cyl. 6 intake manif. injection: 0
                    Misfires per 1000 revolutions of cyl. 2 intake manif. injection: 0
                    Misfires per 1000 revolutions of cyl. 5 intake manif. injection: 0
                    Engine torque: 456.31250 Nm

Interesting to note the RPM, 6902, which is quite high.

So it's cylinder 3 and I recon the coil pack will be my first port of call. I'll swap cylinder 3 with another as a test in the first place and see if the error moves.

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Dave Kwatro

Discussion Starter · #50 · Jul 21, 2021

Hi Tony, could also be a dodgy connection.

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