[geordon]

I have a chance to get a 2009 S5 from a dealer who will have two cars, I think identically configured. One is a black on black tiptronic with over 62,000 miles (mostly long distance highway) and no factory or CPO warranty for roughly $46K OTD. The second is deep sea blue on silver 6MT with around 25,000 miles, 2 years factory, plus CPO warranty for an estimated $57K OTD. I can get a set of used 18" winter rims and tires thrown in the deal with either one. Both cars were originally sold and serviced at this dealer. For comparison, I figure a similar 2011 custom order will run me $68K - $70K OTD minus any discount I can get out of the dealer. At that point, I would wait out for the 3.0T engine.

Both cars would have Audi Drive Select, B&O, custom inlays (carbon vs SS), side assist, Nav, tech, etc. Question: For the ADS, the engine/shifting differences are only beneficial on the tiptronic, right? Does the 2009 package include the sport rear differential, or did that not come until later? If no sport dif, am I only getting steering and shocks on the 6MT? If that is the case, how does Dynamic ADS differ from no ADS on the 6MT?

My color pref has always been manual transmission black on black, though my wife's A4 is a tip DSB w/ gray interior, so the DSB/silver S5 would be like a his/hers in the garage. My wife loves the S5 and would want to "borrow" it from me as my daily driver. I don't track or any other form of race, but also, don't like the "where's the power?" feeling if I want to do a little spirited driving for a mile or two.

I drive about 6,000 miles/year, but figure the S5 would see upwards of 8,000 miles/year being more of a shared vehicle than a 10 miles/day DD. This car could be a long term ride for me (I have put 110,000 miles on my DD over the past 19 years). For that reason, a new 3.0T appeals to me, but it is a lot more money and an unknown wait time (though I could wait, if I had too).

My big question -- is the high mileage tip (no clutch issues) and no warranty a good deal compared to the nearly identical lower mileage 6MT with 4 years of Audi warranty at a $10,000+tax difference? Should I be expecting a 60K maintenance or timing belt replacement to have been done already or will I be footing that bill on my own? Should I worry about carbon build up on it?

Thanks for all the help,

Geordon

 

[questionlp]

The Sports Rear Differential was first introduced in the 2010 model year, if I recall correctly. As far as the Engine/Shifting setting, it will change throttle response in addition to shifting if and only if you have the Tiptronic or S-Tronic transmissions.

So, with a 6MT with ADS (pre-SRD) you will be able to change the steering ratio (and feel), the suspension and throttle response. With a Tiptronic, you will get those three plus shifting points. You will notice that cars with ADS and Tiptronic will not have an "S" gate for the shifter as the Dynamic mode will provide that for you. You will also get the Individual selection if you have the MMI with Navigation (without Navigation, you will only be able to select Auto, Comfort and Dynamic).

Carbon buildup and FSI go hand in hand, and if I read a posting on another forum correctly, Audi has acknowledged the issue. Before signing the papers on either car, I would ask them to inspect and clean out any carbon buildup. You can probably find the TSB numbers by searching around (I don't have them on hand, sorry).

 

[questionlp]

The choice between a 6MT and a Tiptronic is one of preference and situation. Choosing the Tiptronic doesn't mean that you will get a slouch, it would still be a great cruising coupe that can also deliver when you want a spirited drive. With ADS in Dynamic and the paddle shifters and manual selection gate, you can still downshift right before hitting a tight curve and shoot out of it.

In my case, I went with the 6MT as it felt like the opportune time to make the switch from all autos to a manual (even if it means a learning curve). I may curse myself the first time I hit snarled traffic conditions, but for the rest of the time, I'll have something that I can have fun with.

 

[almostS50]

If your buying from a authorized Audi dealer the warranty should jump all the way up to 100,000 miles if not I think you would do better by doing so. When these cars need work they become quite expensive because they cram so many things into very tight places. I tend to buy most of my cars pre-owned and certified these days for this reason.

 

[fred44nl]

So, with a 6MT with ADS (pre-SRD) you will be able to change the steering ratio (and feel), the suspension and throttle response.

you can only change the steering ration, if the car is equipt with the Dynamic Sterring hardware.
this is a device fitted between the steering wheel and the rack and pignon steering.

 

[geordon]

If your buying from a authorized Audi dealer the warranty should jump all the way up to 100,000 miles if not I think you would do better by doing so. When these cars need work they become quite expensive because they cram so many things into very tight places. I tend to buy most of my cars pre-owned and certified these days for this reason.

Yes, you are correct. The CPO'd 6MT would go to 100,000, but since it only has 25,000 now, I figure at the end of the factory warranty in 2 years, it would be at 40,000, and in four years, at 55,000 to 60,000. The automatic model is already over 60,000, so cannot be certified.

 

[ruairi]

As far as the Engine/Shifting setting, it will change throttle response in addition to shifting if and only if you have the Tiptronic or S-Tronic transmissions.

I could be wrong about this, but I believe that that the engine throttle response is affected by the ADS on a M6T.

 

[questionlp]

I could be wrong about this, but I believe that that the engine throttle response is affected by the ADS on a M6T.

What I meant to say is that the throttle response is available with ADS on both transmission choices, but the shifting piece is only available with Tiptronic and S-Tronic.

 

[ruairi]

you can only change the steering ration, if the car is equipt with the Dynamic Sterring hardware.
this is a device fitted between the steering wheel and the rack and pignon steering.

Reading the various VAG-COM threads, unlike the adaptive suspension, the steering programming can be changed without the dynamic steering hardware, only not to the same degree. Without the hardware, it sounds like you can still adjust the amount of power assist. Some owner don't like the amount of assist at low speeds and reduce it via MMI after using the VAG-COM to enable ADS. Doing this also allows you to use the MMI to adjust the sports dif. (if equipped), throttle response, and the shift settings (if automatic). You get a poor man's ADS for the price of the VAG-COM setup.

 

[ruairi]

What I meant to say is that the throttle response is available with ADS on both transmission choices, but the shifting piece is only available with Tiptronic and S-Tronic.

OK, I don't have my car yet so I haven't figured all these things out yet. Just a lot of reading of old threads and talking to my salesman. I'm getting the sports dif. so maybe it and the throttle response are linked. Probably need a VAG-COM (if no ADS) to adjust individually.

 

[fred44nl]

Reading the various VAG-COM threads, unlike the adaptive suspension, the steering programming can be changed without the dynamic steering hardware, only not to the same degree. Without the hardware, it sounds like you can still adjust the amount of power assist. Some owner don't like the amount of assist at low speeds and reduce it via MMI after using the VAG-COM to enable ADS. Doing this also allows you to use the MMI to adjust the sports dif. (if equipped), throttle response, and the shift settings (if automatic). You get a poor man's ADS for the price of the VAG-COM setup.

as far as the steering is concerned, there are two different things that can be adjusted:
1st: Dynamic steering - that changes the steering-wheel ratio.
2nd: Servotronic - which changes the level of power-steering.
in both cases you will need the hardware.
you can have an Audi with / without Dynamic steering and / or Servotronic.

 

[ruairi]

VAG-COM enabling of ADS settings in MMI

as far as the steering is concerned, there are two different things that can be adjusted:
1st: Dynamic steering - that changes the steering-wheel ratio.
2nd: Servotronic - which changes the level of power-steering.
in both cases you will need the hardware.
you can have an Audi with / without Dynamic steering and / or Servotronic.

My error. Yes, hardware is required. What I was trying to say is that on a non-ADS equipped S5, people are adjusting the amount of power-steering assist. It sounds like the Servotronic hardware or similar hardware exist on all cars, but you need to use a VAG-COM setup to enable the ADS interface via the MMI to change the assist settings. Again, I do not have my car yet so I can not confirm this. This would be a good issue for someone that has enabled the MMI interface on a car without ADS to comment on.

 

[number2jcb]

I am torn on what to recommend. I would tell you no manual trans as mine is currently being fixed a third time, but I also wouldn't want a car without a warranty since I just had to have my catalytic converter replaced at 43k miles.

Ask them why they won't CPO the tip. Also, look into third party warranties. Better yet, get a full service record on both cars and look through all visits. Has the tip been through a lot? 11k should definitely cover a 3rd party warranty.

 

[geordon]

I am torn on what to recommend. I would tell you no manual trans as mine is currently being fixed a third time, but I also wouldn't want a car without a warranty since I just had to have my catalytic converter replaced at 43k miles.

Ask them why they won't CPO the tip. Also, look into third party warranties. Better yet, get a full service record on both cars and look through all visits. Has the tip been through a lot? 11k should definitely cover a 3rd party warranty.

Audi won't certify a car with 60K miles. It is too bad the dealership didn't get the owner to bring in the car sooner, so they could CPO it.

Good suggestion on the 3rd party warranty. I had one (Warranty Gold) on my 5.9L Jeep ZJ, and then the company declared bankruptcy on my policy, while there was an outstanding claim :yikes:

 

[geordon]

The Sports Rear Differential was first introduced in the 2010 model year, if I recall correctly. As far as the Engine/Shifting setting, it will change throttle response in addition to shifting if and only if you have the Tiptronic or S-Tronic transmissions.

So, with a 6MT with ADS (pre-SRD) you will be able to change the steering ratio (and feel), the suspension and throttle response. With a Tiptronic, you will get those three plus shifting points. You will notice that cars with ADS and Tiptronic will not have an "S" gate for the shifter as the Dynamic mode will provide that for you. You will also get the Individual selection if you have the MMI with Navigation (without Navigation, you will only be able to select Auto, Comfort and Dynamic).

When we test drove the 6AT, the Comfort/Auto steering was nicer than Dynamic in parking lot driving, but otherwise, my wife and I preferred the Dynamic ride once on the road. I think I might miss the SRD in my daily driver, though? If I don't mind waiting for a CPO-2010 to appear in another 1 1/2 years, and I could get it for the same or better price, but had only Sport Rear Differential (ADS lite), versus the non-SRD ADS, would that a better configuration?