Rear sway bar - Audi A5 Forum & Audi S5 Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 16th June 2018, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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Rear sway bar

I've have been tracking my S5 Sportback MY2013 for almost 6 years now. The last 3 years with a Brembo BBK. Now I'd like to reduce the understeer a bit. My car has the adaptive suspension and no rear sports diff.

What do you guys recommend?

I'm thinking I only need to change the rear sway bar.

S5 Sportback MY2013/B8.5 + Brembo 380mm BBK + 034 Motorsport Rear Sway Bar and Transmission Mount

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post #2 of 31 Old 16th June 2018, 08:58 PM
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Not really sure what you mean Mankan, please explain better.

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post #3 of 31 Old 17th June 2018, 02:42 AM Thread Starter
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I'm looking to improve handling of my car on the track. I think changing to a stiffer rear sway bar would help to reduce understeer in corners.
Does this sound like a good idea? If, so any recommendations of which sway bar to purchase?

If not, please educate me.

S5 Sportback MY2013/B8.5 + Brembo 380mm BBK + 034 Motorsport Rear Sway Bar and Transmission Mount

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post #4 of 31 Old 17th June 2018, 04:59 AM
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Front strut braces seem pretty affordable, I'd start there. Not a clue about sway bars though, I haven't seen one for these cars yet, but I'm sure they exist.

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post #5 of 31 Old 17th June 2018, 09:04 AM
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There are probably a few American companies that offer their own brand of ARB's (sway bars) but in Europe H&R seem to be the tops closely followed by Eibach.

Personally I would do front and rear, I know that the rear on it's own will achieve what you desire but probably leaning towards oversteer, a matched (balanced) front and rear bar set up will give your required result without going too far the other way.
Do not forget to change the drop links (aka end links) at the same time, the OE links are not up to the job with bigger diameter bars and would also give you more ability to fine tune the bars.
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post #6 of 31 Old 18th June 2018, 03:44 PM
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Standard procedure is that a stiffer rear bar, moving roll resistance to the rear will decrease understeer. This has been done over and over on TTs that are track driven. On a TT the OEM front bar is usually adequate. On an S5 my instincts say that it would be also. It’s a shame you don’t have the sport diff. It works wonders. Like an invisible hand rotating the car in the desired direction.
Envy your Big Brake Kit. I’ll have to do that if I ever start tracking the S5 instead of the old TT.

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post #7 of 31 Old 19th June 2018, 08:44 AM
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Rear ARB

Quote:
Originally Posted by mankan View Post
I've have been tracking my S5 Sportback MY2013 for almost 6 years now. The last 3 years with a Brembo BBK. Now I'd like to reduce the understeer a bit. My car has the adaptive suspension and no rear sports diff.

What do you guys recommend?

I'm thinking I only need to change the rear sway bar.
I've been looking into this too and there's quite a bit of info if you search on here- so I want to fit the 034 Motorsports one (rear only is recommended by some) that's if I can find one over here, as they are USA made & only imported & Edit: used to be.. available in the UK from Awesome GTI: 034 Motorsport Adjustable 25.4mm Solid Rear Anti Roll Bar.
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post #8 of 31 Old 19th June 2018, 10:39 AM
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I have the 034 Motorsports rear swaybar - no complaints.
I suggest looking at the CR-15 Canyon Run front strut brace as a cheap addition too (search for it on this forum).
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post #9 of 31 Old 24th June 2018, 10:44 AM
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034Motorsport will have the thickest rear ARB (adjustable) available along with end links for both front and rear (recommended).
Both Eibach, KW and H&R have ARB's too and I'd recommend H&R as theirs are the stiffest and the front is adjustable.

Finally you can look at Eurocode and get their USS. The 034M is a copy of their rear bar IMO and Eurocode have a set that comes with both front and rear along with end links. You can also get their Alu Kreuz under engine subframe plate to stiffen it up. (034M has a similar brace).

The B8 is getting on a bit for age and there is a myriad of aftermarket options if you just google your way!

I personally ran with a 034 rear bar and end links, it was STIFF! Driving on icy roads the rear would step out on me, perhaps a bit to my surprise sometimes, but the chassis seem relatively nicely balanced and it was very progressive. I suspect running it in the softest setting will be better for the road. I'm now running H&R as a set but haven't driven it in anger yet to be able to come with a relevant comparison.

Regards

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post #10 of 31 Old 4th July 2018, 01:58 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks all, I've ordered the 034 rear bar. Starting with fresh original (Bilstein) end links and the soft setting when I get it. According to 034 their end links can cause increased chassi noise.

S5 Sportback MY2013/B8.5 + Brembo 380mm BBK + 034 Motorsport Rear Sway Bar and Transmission Mount

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post #11 of 31 Old 6th July 2018, 02:21 PM
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OK, great - please do let us know how you get on, as I'm still undecided, thanks.


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post #12 of 31 Old 7th July 2018, 07:19 AM
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Dumb question coming up please, as a non-track car fellow. If I aim to use my road car on a race track then would I set my road car suspension harder, so for instance with the sway bar you are talking about here, and then remove it or switch it off for when I drive home or to the office???? Or are you talking about a set up which then is good for road as well as track use???

My track motorbike is so heavily modified that you could never ride it to work, cos we remove the cooling fan (for instance) so overheating in traffic would be certain and also the suspension settings would make road use impossible.

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post #13 of 31 Old 6th August 2018, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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I spent the day trying to mount it but had to give up. I cannot get bar past the lower wide wheel arm (correct term?) since it does not flex as the OEM one. I tried to loosen the gas damper and level sensor and use a crow bar to force it down without any success.

One option would be to loosen the flat iron rod cross that holds the exhaust and gas tank but those screws are really stuck and I fear I will brake something if trying harder. Loosen those could give enough room to twist the bar since it might be able to move the exhaust a bit more.

Yes, I have the rear wheels hanging in the air and I have also removed to rear exhaust holding nuts to let the exhaust and mufflers sag a bit.

Any advice?

S5 Sportback MY2013/B8.5 + Brembo 380mm BBK + 034 Motorsport Rear Sway Bar and Transmission Mount

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post #14 of 31 Old 6th August 2018, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonRoma View Post
Dumb question coming up please, as a non-track car fellow. If I aim to use my road car on a race track then would I set my road car suspension harder, so for instance with the sway bar you are talking about here, and then remove it or switch it off for when I drive home or to the office???? Or are you talking about a set up which then is good for road as well as track use???

My track motorbike is so heavily modified that you could never ride it to work, cos we remove the cooling fan (for instance) so overheating in traffic would be certain and also the suspension settings would make road use impossible.
Sway bars aren't readily removable. Some are adjustable and can be adjusted so with a bit of spannering at home but usually they are set and forget.

Regards
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post #15 of 31 Old 6th August 2018, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mankan View Post
I spent the day trying to mount it but had to give up. I cannot get bar past the lower wide wheel arm (correct term?) since it does not flex as the OEM one. I tried to loosen the gas damper and level sensor and use a crow bar to force it down without any success.

One option would be to loosen the flat iron rod cross that holds the exhaust and gas tank but those screws are really stuck and I fear I will brake something if trying harder. Loosen those could give enough room to twist the bar since it might be able to move the exhaust a bit more.

Yes, I have the rear wheels hanging in the air and I have also removed to rear exhaust holding nuts to let the exhaust and mufflers sag a bit.

Any advice?
Most DIY's I've read says it is tight back there and they all say to remove the exhaust or at the very least undo the hangers for the rear so they can be lowered a fair bit. At some point though you have to throw in the towel if you find yourself disassembling the whole rear of the car :/

Good luck

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KW DDC HLS4, H&R arb, Powerflex bushings. Eurocode Alu Kreuz, SPC UAC, 034motorsport endlinks.
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post #16 of 31 Old 6th August 2018, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mankan View Post
Thanks all, I've ordered the 034 rear bar. Starting with fresh original (Bilstein) end links and the soft setting when I get it. According to 034 their end links can cause increased chassi noise.
Have their end links too. The noise is a muted clunk or a thud when you take a hill or a crest at an angle and put tension on the rear sway. It's not loud or anything but can be disconcerting since the B8 chassis is so nicely insulated inside.

I'll add to this that I only, and only! notice this when I leave my flats underground parking garage. It has a steep uphill + a 90 degree sharp turn at the same time which causes tension on the rear as I take on this hill/turn. I've never noticed the thud whilst driving so I don't really give it much thought.

Having added an E46 M3 to the "fleet" (cue cringe face) and once you experience the rear diff on that you'll truly know what driveline and chassis noise is.

In the end, my opinion is that the tiny bit of added noise is nothing to take into account if you are going for this handling upgrade in the first place. If you want comfort stick with the OEM sway and links or go full aftermarket and be fat'n'happy..

Regards
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post #17 of 31 Old 8th August 2018, 09:27 AM
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Well the terms "comfort" and "performance" are never really gonna sit together very easily. The standard A5 is IMHO an amazing compromise. BUT if that is not fast enough for you then of course the alternatives are noisier and or less comfortable. But that is surely par for the course. A track bike is stripped of all of the extras like headlights and stuff so the weight is reduced to the minimum, then a massive radiator is added and the fan and stuff is removed so that the engine runs cooler when at speed and then you must switch off as soon as you stop, then the seat is replaced by a plank to save weight and so on. Comfort is NOT a priority!!.
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post #18 of 31 Old 27th August 2018, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
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Here is an update from my side. I have spent the last weeks mailing back and forth with 034 Motorsport and sent pictures from my car as well as digging in ETKA. The conclusion is that the sway bar should fit but I would need to remove the rear parts of the exhaust. Their instructions says its enough with just removing the rear bolts and let the end pipes and silencer sag a bit.

On a Sportback this is not enough due to the panhard rods (unique for the Sportback) that keeps the exhaust in place as well. And I guess that they needs loosening in the rear (two rear screws on each) to be able to remove the rear exhaust or maybe the exhaust can sag enough with the rods loosened.

Any advice for this operation?
Are the panhard rods in tension so they will come at you when loosening? And will be hard to get in place again?
Also the M12 XZN screws are really tight. I guess some kind of impact driver is recommended. Torque/Loctite when reattaching them? Buy new screws?

S5 Sportback MY2013/B8.5 + Brembo 380mm BBK + 034 Motorsport Rear Sway Bar and Transmission Mount

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post #19 of 31 Old 27th August 2018, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mankan View Post
Here is an update from my side. I have spent the last weeks mailing back and forth with 034 Motorsport and sent pictures from my car as well as digging in ETKA. The conclusion is that the sway bar should fit but I would need to remove the rear parts of the exhaust. Their instructions says its enough with just removing the rear bolts and let the end pipes and silencer sag a bit.

On a Sportback this is not enough due to the panhard rods (unique for the Sportback) that keeps the exhaust in place as well. And I guess that they needs loosening in the rear (two rear screws on each) to be able to remove the rear exhaust or maybe the exhaust can sag enough with the rods loosened.

Any advice for this operation?
Are the panhard rods in tension so they will come at you when loosening? And will be hard to get in place again?
Also the M12 XZN screws are really tight. I guess some kind of impact driver is recommended. Torque/Loctite when reattaching them? Buy new screws?
Can't help you much I'm afraid, allegedly Audi's are a bit complicated to wrench on so I've always left mine to a professional. I'm on first name terms with everyone on the shop floor and on the managers Christmas Card list

With regards to tightening torque: I see especially US DIY's refer to them religiously, and whereas I can understand that sentiment for more sensitive parts with gaskets, I don't really see the massive big deal with more basic stuff, the standard "gut'n'tight' seem to suffice for many. You're swedish so have probably swapped over wheels for winter/spring, have you ever tightened the lug nuts to a torque specification before? I haven't.. I don't see the big deal, I think torquing to spec is mostly to be able to undo the stuff without great bother, loctite is a nice thing for peace of mind IMO.

Regards

2009 3.0Tdi Quattro Tiptronic, XenonzUK RS5 front, ABT sideskirt, Milltek Sport. OEM RS5 st.wheel, S5 interior.
KW DDC HLS4, H&R arb, Powerflex bushings. Eurocode Alu Kreuz, SPC UAC, 034motorsport endlinks.
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post #20 of 31 Old 28th August 2018, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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Well torque specs+Loctite info would give me a clue how much force I would need to get the screws loosened.
But there are tables for that one can look it up in. I have my wheels removed more than twice a year since I go through 2-3 sets of brake pads each track season and swap for the winter (track pads are scary when cold and wet) but I actually use torque wrench for the wheels but the torque for the calipers are in my hands :-)
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post #21 of 31 Old 2nd September 2018, 10:05 AM
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I also run the 034 rear sway bar. It's absolutely fantastic. I daily drive and leave it on the stiffer setting. It's greatly increased over steer especially in turns, but never to the point of spinning out. Not that I've really tried either lol

I think the 034 is the best option, or one of, if you're keeping the front sway bar stock.
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post #22 of 31 Old 5th September 2018, 05:52 PM
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See my .sig and look at this post I just added to the S5 General Q&A thread for how to neutralize your understeer as best you can.
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post #23 of 31 Old 8th October 2018, 08:12 AM
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Mankan did you finally get it fitted okay- any advice?

Have now found another UK option- anyone tried this one?
It's not too pricey as it's available for us here in the UK- and it's the same thickness as 034 Motorsports:

Hardrace Rear Anti-Roll Bar: (25.4mm) - Audi A4 B8 ('08-14), A5/S5 8T ('07+)
Droplinks: A4 8K/S4/A5 8T/ S5/Q5 8R REAR REINFORCED STAB. LINK 2PCS 7825 A4/S4/A5/Q5
REAR REIN STAN. LINK 2PCS

Currently available imported from H-Tune in Northants, UK- so am now considering this fitted with their
Pillowball alloy droplinks.
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Deep Sea Blue, S-Tronic, 3G+MMI Nav, B&0, DAB, Bass Amp & Sub, AMI, Cruise, HBA+ auto dim RVM, Xenon Plus, LED DRL's & Fogs, 20% tints, Rear ARB & links, H&R Sports Springs.
RS5 pedals & door pulls, RS5 Body kit, BSR Custom Tuned to 333hp. FL tails & LEDs, Alcantara Starlite Elec Mem seats, custom wheel, Black Optics, 20" Alloys, S5 BBK with ceramic pads, Sunroof & folding Mirrors. Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly..

Last edited by Pulsarlaser; 12th January 2019 at 01:31 PM. Reason: info updated
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post #24 of 31 Old 8th October 2018, 09:36 AM
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Not tried it but be aware that =thickness does not mean =stiffness, construction, mass etc have a say in how stiff it will be.

Regards

2009 3.0Tdi Quattro Tiptronic, XenonzUK RS5 front, ABT sideskirt, Milltek Sport. OEM RS5 st.wheel, S5 interior.
KW DDC HLS4, H&R arb, Powerflex bushings. Eurocode Alu Kreuz, SPC UAC, 034motorsport endlinks.
AWE intake, Darkside Developments intercooler/hybrid turbo/downpipe.


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post #25 of 31 Old 8th October 2018, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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@Pulsarlaser: No its not fitted yet. I'll post an update when that happens.

S5 Sportback MY2013/B8.5 + Brembo 380mm BBK + 034 Motorsport Rear Sway Bar and Transmission Mount

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post #26 of 31 Old 8th October 2018, 03:55 PM
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Mankan did you finally get it fitted okay- any advice?

Have now found another UK option- anyone tried this one?
It's not too pricey as it's available for us here in the UK- and it's the same thickness as 034 Motorsports:

Hardrace Rear Anti-Roll Bar (25.4mm) - Audi A4 B8 ('08-14), A5/S5 8T ('07+)

Currently available from H-Tune in Northants, so am now considering this fitted with the 034 droplinks.
I noticed them too - asked a few days ago but no answer. Someone on audisport said they were good though. 380 for the bar and drop links is great value.

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Not tried it but be aware that =thickness does not mean =stiffness, construction, mass etc have a say in how stiff it will be.

Regards
I emailed a Hardrace distributor and they said although it's hollow the construction means it should be as stiff as a solid bar
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post #27 of 31 Old 9th October 2018, 12:07 PM
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Any trouble mounting the H&R front sway bars? Heard the bottom plastic may need to be cut to accommodate it, but that was on a cabrio. Thanks
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post #28 of 31 Old 15th October 2018, 12:19 PM
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Garage
So from experience you are not going to reduce understeer with a bigger rear bar, you may just get the rear to kick out a bit but thats it. These cars dive into turns but you can use this to your advantage at the track. What i recommend is a better set of coilovers like Olins and a track alingnment.

2008 coupe manual, H&R sway bars front and rear-custom eurocode endlink fornt spherical bushing rear,Miltek sport non-resonated exhaust with downpipes, RS5 grill,stratmosphere short shifter, Stoptech 380 bbk carbotech xp12 front rear, Olins track coilovers,APR supercharger Apr cold air intake, TTRS flat bottomed steering wheel, custom separate reservoir clutch fluid, BBS chr wheel with advan neovas, RS5 oval tailpipes, Recaro CS seats with Schroth racing harness, K40 radar front rear
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post #29 of 31 Old 28th January 2019, 01:10 AM
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Rear Hardrace bar & Pillowball links fitted

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Originally Posted by Jeebsy View Post
I noticed them too - asked a few days ago but no answer. Someone on audisport said they were good though. 380 for the bar and drop links is great value.



I emailed a Hardrace distributor and they said although it's hollow the construction means it should be as stiff as a solid bar
I finally decided on the Hardrace rear ARB & Alloy Pillowball Droplinks and ordered it on Black Friday (it took 3 weeks to arrive)- fitted it last week as my exhaust was already off- discovered one of my original droplinks was soon to be in need of replacing anyway- now it corners like it's on rails and the rear stays completely firm & level (low to the ground) when cornering heavily, so I love it.
Had to soak the nuts tightly bound with some fabric soaked with WD40 for a few hours before they could be cracked, and as my Coupe has been lowered (H&R OE Sports Springs), the access was only a few mm for ratcheting, so patience was paramount.


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A5 3.0 TDi quattro Coupe SE, S-line.
Deep Sea Blue, S-Tronic, 3G+MMI Nav, B&0, DAB, Bass Amp & Sub, AMI, Cruise, HBA+ auto dim RVM, Xenon Plus, LED DRL's & Fogs, 20% tints, Rear ARB & links, H&R Sports Springs.
RS5 pedals & door pulls, RS5 Body kit, BSR Custom Tuned to 333hp. FL tails & LEDs, Alcantara Starlite Elec Mem seats, custom wheel, Black Optics, 20" Alloys, S5 BBK with ceramic pads, Sunroof & folding Mirrors. Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly..
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post #30 of 31 Old 28th January 2019, 03:16 AM
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I finally decided on the Hardrace rear ARB & Alloy Pillowball Droplinks and ordered it on Black Friday (it took 3 weeks to arrive)- fitted it last week as my exhaust was already off- discovered one of my original droplinks was soon to be in need of replacing anyway- now it corners like it's on rails and the rear stays completely firm & level (low to the ground) when cornering heavily, so I love it.
Had to soak the nuts tightly bound with some fabric soaked with WD40 for a few hours before they could be cracked, and as my Coupe has been lowered (H&R OE Sports Springs), the access was only a few mm for ratcheting, so patience was paramount. :-)
I got one too (also on black Friday) - just the sway bar though, not the drop links. Don't have much point of reference to compare but really pleased with the handling now too - it's a lot more settled in fast corners. Seems great value, especially on the BF deal.
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