S5 Buying part 2 dilemma - Audi A5 Forum & Audi S5 Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 29th April 2019, 01:07 AM Thread Starter
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S5 Buying part 2 dilemma

As I am getting closer to buying, I'm narrowing down the spec and colours etc.

What's your opinion on the S5s, which would you go for;

Car 1
62 2012
53K miles
Drive select - Dynamic Sport diff, suspension, steering, engine, engine sound
Nav, mem seats 20" double arm etc
150miles away from me

Car 2
64 2015
39K miles
Nav, mem seats, Camera
Lower tax as post May 2014 (same as my 3.0 tdi!!) Latest 3rd gen gearbox and supercharger clutch
19" rotors
But +£3k
5 miles away from me

Both are white and white/black leather and S-Tronic. But can't make my mind up whether I want all toys and ignore it's 3 years older or buy newer and forget about the sport diff, dynamic steering etc

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2014 Audi S5 - current
2009 Audi a5 3.0TDi Tip Sport
2003 Audi A4 1.9 TDi
2004 MG ZT 190 2.5 V6
1997 BMW 328i Coupe M Sport
1994 Rover Coupe Turbo Targa top (Tomcat)
1988 Peugeot 1.9 GTi
1982 Metro 1.3s (MG herringbone/velour seats)
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post #2 of 31 Old 29th April 2019, 01:08 AM
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If number 1 is V8 it's hardly a competition
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post #3 of 31 Old 29th April 2019, 01:56 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IngolWorks - Eamonn View Post
If number 1 is V8 it's hardly a competition
Both are 3.0 V6 TFSI

S5 - Standard, but not for long...

2014 Audi S5 - current
2009 Audi a5 3.0TDi Tip Sport
2003 Audi A4 1.9 TDi
2004 MG ZT 190 2.5 V6
1997 BMW 328i Coupe M Sport
1994 Rover Coupe Turbo Targa top (Tomcat)
1988 Peugeot 1.9 GTi
1982 Metro 1.3s (MG herringbone/velour seats)
1984 Talbot Solara 1.6
Yamaha R6 - Gone
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post #4 of 31 Old 29th April 2019, 02:59 AM
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hmmm option 2 for me personally. Have you had the spec on the 2nd one confirmed? Maybe they dont know what it has.
What i usually do is call audi uk customer service and find out the servicing history for the car. They will tell you which garages have serviced the car. Then i ccall theose garages up and confirm the service and ANY warranty work done. Could be a friday night build car!!

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post #5 of 31 Old 29th April 2019, 03:30 AM
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Second one all day long.
Age usually affects price rather than extras.
If you are making a PX, cost to change may be very different.
Would also look at the service history number of owners etc.

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post #6 of 31 Old 29th April 2019, 03:43 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks.

I'm edging towards the 2nd, newer car and forgetting about the sport diff. If I do really really want that, then I could always chop it in for one with a SD.

I think I'm just thinking of the extra toys on the older one, which after a while I'll probably forget about.

S5 - Standard, but not for long...

2014 Audi S5 - current
2009 Audi a5 3.0TDi Tip Sport
2003 Audi A4 1.9 TDi
2004 MG ZT 190 2.5 V6
1997 BMW 328i Coupe M Sport
1994 Rover Coupe Turbo Targa top (Tomcat)
1988 Peugeot 1.9 GTi
1982 Metro 1.3s (MG herringbone/velour seats)
1984 Talbot Solara 1.6
Yamaha R6 - Gone
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post #7 of 31 Old 29th April 2019, 04:12 AM
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Possibly going to get my head bitten off here.
Unless you are going to do track days you won't really need the SD. In the real world you will be attracting the attention of the boys in blue.

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post #8 of 31 Old 29th April 2019, 06:02 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NC35 View Post
Possibly going to get my head bitten off here.
Unless you are going to do track days you won't really need the SD. In the real world you will be attracting the attention of the boys in blue.

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I agree, although the SD would be a nice option to have, it adds to the car's handling/driving dynamics, but doesn't add to 'kerb appeal' more to the keen driver. I can get oversteer on my 3.0 tdi by giving the accelerator a good press, in the wet it will behave like a rear wheel drive when provoked and ASR is turned off.

S5 - Standard, but not for long...

2014 Audi S5 - current
2009 Audi a5 3.0TDi Tip Sport
2003 Audi A4 1.9 TDi
2004 MG ZT 190 2.5 V6
1997 BMW 328i Coupe M Sport
1994 Rover Coupe Turbo Targa top (Tomcat)
1988 Peugeot 1.9 GTi
1982 Metro 1.3s (MG herringbone/velour seats)
1984 Talbot Solara 1.6
Yamaha R6 - Gone
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post #9 of 31 Old 29th April 2019, 10:06 AM
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Iíd go for the second one as long as the history is good. I had adaptive suspension on the car I traded last year. Couldnít really tell the difference between the settings, and felt no different to the standard suspension on my current B9. And sports diff... nice talking point but irrelevant on our roads 99% of the time.
And cue the flames...!


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post #10 of 31 Old 29th April 2019, 02:42 PM
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I would also go for the newer S5 (i.e., the second one) due to its age and less tax. Sports Diff is barely noticeable in City and Highway Roads. If you go through the twistys a lot, it is fun to have for sure. As others mentioned, if you spend most of your time driving regular city and highway roads, you'll never know it is there.

The other bells and whistles are really nice to have features but, if hard pressed to find a good example on a used S5, I would forgo these things for less tax. I still want Audi Drive Select so I can have settings for throttle response, transmission, and steering (effort). All S5's have the soundaktor (sound effects) so don't worry about not having it. The fixed sport suspension is quite good as others have mentioned.

As with all used car purchases, have the candidate inspected by a garage whether Audi or indy before making a decision.


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post #11 of 31 Old 29th April 2019, 11:02 PM
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Would agree that sd is only needed once a year if so, i've got mine now for nearly 3 years and it only goes into sport probably once a month or when i feel like reaching 80mph on a 30mph limit road, so obviously you wouldnt use it that much, even tho knowing manchester and all of the ricer boys there you might have a bit more luck 😄
The only thing that would bother me is smaller wheels, but that is upgradable.
And it does have plenty of punch even in dynamic mode when you want it to 😉

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post #12 of 31 Old 30th April 2019, 04:08 AM
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I have always been fairly unbiased about the SD. I really do believe that it should be fairly obvious whether or not one will benefit from it. I made my decision after many test drives of cars with and without. I could easily make the back end of a non-SD car start to twitch on tight corners, so it was clear that I wanted/needed it. Whereas drivers who don't experience the problems of a standard rear diff clearly don't tend to drive in such a way that a limited slip one would be any benefit. Sorry guys, but comments such as "only for track" and "99% of the time" don't really help. They are much the same as telling the OP "I don't need SD and therefore YOU don't need SD".
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post #13 of 31 Old 30th April 2019, 08:35 AM Thread Starter
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I agree Dippy!

I think it's a case of if you buy 2nd hand and it doesn't have one then it's a case of writing it off and it not being necessary.

I would like one, but on the used market other factors weigh on the decision of buying a particular car. I'm a little impatient so I can't wait for the 'perfect' spec to pop up on my screen.

Buying new allows you to procrastinate over the options then tick the box and sit back to wait for the perfect spec'd car to be delivered.

How's the SC clutch on yours. I see you made a few posts about it? Is there no tuners doing a dual pulley upgrade for the CREC engine? I also see some give more option on sizes for the crank pulley to negate the need to upgrade the SC pulley?
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S5 - Standard, but not for long...

2014 Audi S5 - current
2009 Audi a5 3.0TDi Tip Sport
2003 Audi A4 1.9 TDi
2004 MG ZT 190 2.5 V6
1997 BMW 328i Coupe M Sport
1994 Rover Coupe Turbo Targa top (Tomcat)
1988 Peugeot 1.9 GTi
1982 Metro 1.3s (MG herringbone/velour seats)
1984 Talbot Solara 1.6
Yamaha R6 - Gone
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post #14 of 31 Old 30th April 2019, 12:52 PM
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Car 2, Dave. The SD would be great, if youíve got the need, but 14k miles less, lower tax, a gen 3 DSG, and 19s (tyres for 20s are still crazy expensive) make the car a more liveable option.
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post #15 of 31 Old 30th April 2019, 04:13 PM
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Agree 100% with Julian, no brainer, newer car every time. Good luck!!!

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post #16 of 31 Old 1st May 2019, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kwatro View Post
Buying new allows you to procrastinate over the options then tick the box and sit back to wait for the perfect spec'd car to be delivered.
You may have seen my posts on the subject. Back in 2014/5 I tried to find a used SB to my spec (including SD) but couldn't. Then I discovered CarWow and convinced myself that a 19% discount was justification for buying new. And yes I did procrastinate over options - I started with all boxes ticked (except the "bling" ones of course) and then eventually unticked the TV box (which in hindsight was definitely the right decision).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kwatro View Post
How's the SC clutch on yours. I see you made a few posts about it? Is there no tuners doing a dual pulley upgrade for the CREC engine? I also see some give more option on sizes for the crank pulley to negate the need to upgrade the SC pulley?
It seems fine. Time has passed since then and I have only been aware of three "groups" of failures. One turned out to be on a car with a faulty SC, another 2 were on a member's S5 which was used for APR's UK testing, and the other group was when I did a general search and found one or two reports of warranty replacements on US cars (e.g Q5) which were not tuned. I do know that the clutch was revised at least once, and I don't have the latest version, so I am ready that it might need to be replaced. But its been over 2 years since my MRC tune and no sign yet (I have a SC revs gauge on by FIS Control MMI so I should see if it starts to slip). Its a bit like the issue with the cats. There have been enough reports of them failing in the US to be concerned, and they are something that could fail more quickly after tuning. Having seen reports of the clutch failing it still remains a risk, but as time goes by it appears that the risk is not so high.

There is no point in going DP. This was only something that happened for owners with a reduced size SC pulley who wanted more. That pulley can't go smaller so the best option was to add a bigger crank pulley as well (no point in changing the SC pulley again, especially as there's a significant effort to do so). Since there's no limit to crank pulley size (just max SC revs) from stock that's the way to go. Then when the CREC came along with a bolted SC pulley and so tuners would have to design a new one, it made sense to just do the crank pulley.

Current: 2015 Audi S5 sportback black edition (MRC stage 2)
Previous: 2001 Audi B5 S4 avant (modified)
Previous: Subaru Impreza WRX (wrapped around a tree)

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post #17 of 31 Old 1st May 2019, 11:39 AM
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Iím pretty convinced now that the slipping supercharger clutch is a misdirection. Itís actually a slipping supercharger belt and happens on pre crec engines too, the difference being that the presence of the clutch means the ecu can detect it whereas before it could not.

All you need is the right belt and itís a non issue.

Dual pulleys again are a bad idea as the small pulley reduces the purchase on the belt and increases the torque transmission required at the same time. Larger crank pulley is mechanically much more sensible.
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post #18 of 31 Old 1st May 2019, 11:48 AM
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Also I completely agree with Dippy regarding the sports diff. You can feel it all the time when driving.

I looked for a car with sports diff as this was practically the hardest retrofit. Happened across one with the suspension too then retrofitted dynamic steering and everything else that was missing - including the tv!!

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post #19 of 31 Old 2nd May 2019, 01:35 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Dippy, that's put my mind at rest and as Adam says, it could be belt slippige too!

Bought the 64 plate!!!

Oh that exhaust parp on changing gear made me buy it alone!! ha ha

But the downside is, it doesn't feel any faster then my diesel beast! So I'm going to have to tune it a bit! Tut!
It also needs spacers as my A5 looks really good on spacers, the S5 needs them too!!

Views on the X-pipe!? as it's a sleeve clamp, the original centre resonator can be put back on if it's too boy racery!

So just deliberating whether to start mod shopping before I've even taken delivery!!!

Silly thing is, I've been looking at tuning S5s before even looking at buying one - that's what appealed, the reasonable low cost and great gains achievable of tuning the S5.

Watch this space...
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S5 - Standard, but not for long...

2014 Audi S5 - current
2009 Audi a5 3.0TDi Tip Sport
2003 Audi A4 1.9 TDi
2004 MG ZT 190 2.5 V6
1997 BMW 328i Coupe M Sport
1994 Rover Coupe Turbo Targa top (Tomcat)
1988 Peugeot 1.9 GTi
1982 Metro 1.3s (MG herringbone/velour seats)
1984 Talbot Solara 1.6
Yamaha R6 - Gone
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post #20 of 31 Old 2nd May 2019, 01:42 AM
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Outstanding! Go nuts, mate!

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post #21 of 31 Old 2nd May 2019, 02:16 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Outstanding! Go nuts, mate!
Thanks Julian!

Have you sorted your wubba wubba yet? Has your Quattro system taken a sip of my special amber nectar!!??


Luckily my new S5 had the transmission service 4K miles ago, so no worried for 3-4 years on my average mileage. (Hopefully)

S5 - Standard, but not for long...

2014 Audi S5 - current
2009 Audi a5 3.0TDi Tip Sport
2003 Audi A4 1.9 TDi
2004 MG ZT 190 2.5 V6
1997 BMW 328i Coupe M Sport
1994 Rover Coupe Turbo Targa top (Tomcat)
1988 Peugeot 1.9 GTi
1982 Metro 1.3s (MG herringbone/velour seats)
1984 Talbot Solara 1.6
Yamaha R6 - Gone
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post #22 of 31 Old 2nd May 2019, 02:24 AM Thread Starter
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@Dippy

How much is the FIS MMI module? Is it easy to install and use? Can you control it through the MMI buttons?

Looks like a good bit of kit - bit like the Nissan GT-R screen with gauges!

S5 - Standard, but not for long...

2014 Audi S5 - current
2009 Audi a5 3.0TDi Tip Sport
2003 Audi A4 1.9 TDi
2004 MG ZT 190 2.5 V6
1997 BMW 328i Coupe M Sport
1994 Rover Coupe Turbo Targa top (Tomcat)
1988 Peugeot 1.9 GTi
1982 Metro 1.3s (MG herringbone/velour seats)
1984 Talbot Solara 1.6
Yamaha R6 - Gone
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post #23 of 31 Old 2nd May 2019, 03:47 AM
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https://www.turbozentrum.de/FIS-Cont...ad-Description

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kwatro View Post
Have you sorted your wubba wubba yet? Has your Quattro system taken a sip of my special amber nectar!!??
Not yet. Work keeps interfering with the important stuff. However, the car is booked in next week to have all the diffs flushed out and refilled with new oil AND the magic potion. Weíll also take a long hard look at the front diff outer bearing races. Fingers crossed.

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post #25 of 31 Old 2nd May 2019, 04:31 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks again Dippy!

Certainly looks very attractive! Like the fact you can design your own graphics

How complicated was it to install, it does say it's an unfinished product, so some setup bits and bobs need doing?

Out of interest what is the std and stage 2 charge pressure?

S5 - Standard, but not for long...

2014 Audi S5 - current
2009 Audi a5 3.0TDi Tip Sport
2003 Audi A4 1.9 TDi
2004 MG ZT 190 2.5 V6
1997 BMW 328i Coupe M Sport
1994 Rover Coupe Turbo Targa top (Tomcat)
1988 Peugeot 1.9 GTi
1982 Metro 1.3s (MG herringbone/velour seats)
1984 Talbot Solara 1.6
Yamaha R6 - Gone
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post #26 of 31 Old 3rd May 2019, 02:06 AM
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Congrats Mr Kwatro on the new purchase I'm sure you'll love it, when do you pick it up?
The X pipe mod is something I've been considering for a while now and my stock exhaust has started to develop a rattle so depending on what's happening with it this could be something I do before too long.
Agreed those gear change farts and the blips on the downshift are great.
As for the boost pressure I'm not sure about stg 2 but on my stg1they told me they increased boost by 1psi throughout the rev range and keep it going all the way to 7200rpm. ((stock bleeds boost off at 5000rpm to keep bhp down)and obviously you need the tcu remap to get 7200rpm)
Also can't you swap the wheel spacers from your a5?
Let us know how you get on when you pick it up.
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post #27 of 31 Old 3rd May 2019, 03:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kwatro View Post
Thanks again Dippy!

Certainly looks very attractive! Like the fact you can design your own graphics

How complicated was it to install, it does say it's an unfinished product, so some setup bits and bobs need doing?
Start here: https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/thread...4#post-3290275


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kwatro View Post
Out of interest what is the std and stage 2 charge pressure?
Standard is 1.8 bar absolute. Mine peaks at 2.3 bar.

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Thanks!!

Pick it up in the morning!

The A5 looks sooo much better in it's stance with spacers, I think for the sake of £100 I'm selling it with all the bits I've put on it.

But I will be looking into tuning fairly soon as the A5 if anything feels faster as the torque is 150ft/lbs more!!

S5 - Standard, but not for long...

2014 Audi S5 - current
2009 Audi a5 3.0TDi Tip Sport
2003 Audi A4 1.9 TDi
2004 MG ZT 190 2.5 V6
1997 BMW 328i Coupe M Sport
1994 Rover Coupe Turbo Targa top (Tomcat)
1988 Peugeot 1.9 GTi
1982 Metro 1.3s (MG herringbone/velour seats)
1984 Talbot Solara 1.6
Yamaha R6 - Gone
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post #29 of 31 Old 3rd May 2019, 04:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dippy View Post
Start here: https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/thread...4#post-3290275



Standard is 1.8 bar absolute. Mine peaks at 2.3 bar.
That high, that's turbo territory!! I always thought superchargers ran like a low boost turbo, about 8 or 10 psi

S5 - Standard, but not for long...

2014 Audi S5 - current
2009 Audi a5 3.0TDi Tip Sport
2003 Audi A4 1.9 TDi
2004 MG ZT 190 2.5 V6
1997 BMW 328i Coupe M Sport
1994 Rover Coupe Turbo Targa top (Tomcat)
1988 Peugeot 1.9 GTi
1982 Metro 1.3s (MG herringbone/velour seats)
1984 Talbot Solara 1.6
Yamaha R6 - Gone
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post #30 of 31 Old 4th May 2019, 02:05 AM
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Garage
Yes, due to the way they work, turbos can develop higher boost than superchargers (at least in terms of the size of units which can feasibly be used in road cars). However the principle of forced induction is the same whether a turbocharger or supercharger is used to generate the boost. So if you want your supercharged car to make the same sort of power as a turbocharged equivalent then you need to give it a suitably sized supercharger.

It is probably true to say that for two production engines of the same capacity and designed to produce the same peak power, it will be the turbocharged one which will have the higher boost after simply remapping. If it were not for the ease at which we can change the pulley ratio on our engines, and the fact that Audi gave it a decent capacity supercharger, we would not be seeing the figures that we do.

Once the Bosch MG1 ECU on the B9 petrol engined S5 is cracked, expect to see similar or higher figures. I am hesitant to judge how high because the twin scroll turbo on that engine has been carefully sized to minimise lag, and the engine uses a form of the miller cycle to alter the effective compression ratio. So there may be a limit to how much extra boost is "safe".
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