B&O Subwoofer replacement - Audi A5 Forum & Audi S5 Forum
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post #1 of 38 Old 18th January 2011, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
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B&O Subwoofer replacement

I know this has been hashed over and I read through the threads I could find, but could not find an actual wiring diagram of the B&O system. I'm curious about the line running to the sub in the rear deck, is it a true sub out from the amp? Could I theoretically run the line in the rear deck into a small aftermarket amp and then to an aftermarket sub I put in the stock position and not worry about filtering the signal? I want more bass range, specifically lower, and more power to it. I have the bass pretty much cranked to 11 and it's really distorting the rest of the system. I think if I can dial that back and turn up the gain a bit on a better sub in the back, it would really round out well. But trying to do as simple an install as possible.

'11 with B&O
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post #2 of 38 Old 18th January 2011, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstev4610 View Post
I know this has been hashed over and I read through the threads I could find, but could not find an actual wiring diagram of the B&O system. I'm curious about the line running to the sub in the rear deck, is it a true sub out from the amp? Could I theoretically run the line in the rear deck into a small aftermarket amp and then to an aftermarket sub I put in the stock position and not worry about filtering the signal? I want more bass range, specifically lower, and more power to it. I have the bass pretty much cranked to 11 and it's really distorting the rest of the system. I think if I can dial that back and turn up the gain a bit on a better sub in the back, it would really round out well. But trying to do as simple an install as possible.

'11 with B&O
Well, it depends if you have nav or not.

If you have nav, there are some products I've found online that you use by removing your toslink cable plug going into the B&O processor & it gives you RCAs (from unfiltered audio) as well as passes through the rest of the info to the B&O amp. Otherwise, you have to do what most everyone I've read about does--use speaker-level outs from the amp to the sub (which are already filtered--I really doubt the B&O is sending any information below 40 or 50hz to the sub).

If you don't have nav, you will have plain copper signal coming into the B&O amp which can be intercepted & spliced into RCAs before it gets processed. One of these days I'm going to have time to do this install in my S5.

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post #3 of 38 Old 19th January 2011, 06:12 AM
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There are controls for advanced audio levels/gains in the MMI hidden menu, I wonder if this can be tweaked?

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post #4 of 38 Old 19th January 2011, 08:23 AM
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Oh and this is for cars with B&O and nav:
http://www.audi-forums.com/attachmen...ifier-bang.pdf
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post #5 of 38 Old 20th January 2011, 06:28 AM Thread Starter
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Oh and this is for cars with B&O and nav:
http://www.audi-forums.com/attachmen...ifier-bang.pdf
Perfect, thanks!
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post #6 of 38 Old 25th January 2011, 08:30 AM Thread Starter
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Alright, decided on an Alpine SWR-T10 for the deck, running free-air. 3 1/4" mounting depth, should look as close to stock as I can get.
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post #7 of 38 Old 15th February 2011, 08:26 AM Thread Starter
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Finally finished up this project and went a totally different route than expected. The alpine rep said their low profile woofer was not tested as free air, so the installer and I were trying to decide between a triangle box from the back of the rear deck down to the seat firing forward, or use the fuse box space and fiberglass a box in. We went with the latter for a cleaner look and to keep the full trunk space open.

Used a JL 8" W3v3 and 600.1 amp. Tapped the signal back at the B&O unit, left the B&O sub in and running. Dialed down the base in the head unit and adjusted the gain to where there's now a really, really good sounding full range and I am more than pleased with the result. The rest of the system sounds so much better without being over worked by base from the head unit, it sounds like a complete system replacement.

We used a vinyl that matches my tuscan brown interior, I think it looks great.


Mounted a pull tab on the outside of the fiberglass for easy pull away to get to the fuses.


Amp mounted in an open slot on the left side with the B&O unit (amp is in the middle)
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post #8 of 38 Old 15th February 2011, 08:54 AM
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Heat wont be an issue with all the amps and stuff jammed in there? But looks good. That free space on the side was perfectly used to house your sub.
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post #9 of 38 Old 15th February 2011, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
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I had the same question. The installer said the 600/1 amp throws off little heat for its size, and it's vented enough inside that area that what heat there is would be ok.
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post #10 of 38 Old 15th February 2011, 04:21 PM
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I went with the JL 10W0v2-8 and it sounds ok but using the stock B&O amp it is still slightly underpowered. Also, I'm still getting distortion from the drivers in the doors if I have the bass and volume at a comfortable "rock out" level. I'm considering now adding a small dedicated mono amp so that I can power and control gain independently of the B&O. I tested it with an old 800W Kenwood amp that I had and the 10W0v2 really came alive! Anyone have a recommendation for a good small size mono amp with speaker level inputs? I'm thinking I can mount it upside down to the bottom of the rear deck next to the sub.


John, what your progress was on the sub install? Did you get the custom free-air woofer you were considering?

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post #11 of 38 Old 15th February 2011, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pparrett View Post
John, what your progress was on the sub install? Did you get the custom free-air woofer you were considering?
Would you believe I haven't even received it yet? AE is notorious for long lead times, and truth be told, I haven't really had much time lately to do it.

I figured you'd want more power on that sub!

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post #12 of 38 Old 16th February 2011, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jstev4610 View Post
Tapped the signal back at the B&O unit, left the B&O sub in and running.
Did you tap the sub outputs yellow/white and blue/yellow right at the B&O amp? Did you then use a line-level converter to go into the XD600? I didn't think the new JL's had speaker-level inputs which is why I ask.

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post #13 of 38 Old 16th February 2011, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
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I couldn't tell you with absolute certainty since I didn't do the install, but it was explained to me that rca's were tapped right at R157 on the diagram. The amp itself has a filter, so it's ran straight from the tap to the inputs. I can get the specifics for you if you need.
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post #14 of 38 Old 16th February 2011, 09:41 AM
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Got it. I just checked the spec sheet and on that JL, there is a small switch that can toggle from low-voltage to high-voltage on the RCA inputs. So yes, it makes sense now that it's tapped directly off the B&O subwoofer outputs directly into the JL inputs. Very nice setup. I might have to flatter you and do the same on mine.

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post #15 of 38 Old 17th February 2011, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pparrett View Post
Got it. I just checked the spec sheet and on that JL, there is a small switch that can toggle from low-voltage to high-voltage on the RCA inputs. So yes, it makes sense now that it's tapped directly off the B&O subwoofer outputs directly into the JL inputs. Very nice setup. I might have to flatter you and do the same on mine.
If you have the B&O, Preston, there's a part I've seen online that plugs into the fiberoptic loop at the amplifier (coming from the receiver), and gives you a pair (or 2) of RCAs to plug into your amplifier.

The benefit of doing this is that you're getting a full range signal, not one that's been filtered to work with the flimsy 8" speaker.

When I Googled it, I found the same product at a huge price disparity, so if you're interested make sure you look for a while.

I don't know of anyone who's actually posted any experiences with the part.

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post #16 of 38 Old 17th February 2011, 10:50 AM
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I'm not comfortable doing this install on my own, so I got a couple of quotes from some local stereo shops. One mentioned that the mentioned sub is not meant for open-air, and recommended the JL ZR series. Does anyone have any info on the ZR? They said it would be able to play lower frequencies than the 10W1 and wouldn't hang as low in the trunk/shelf.


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post #17 of 38 Old 17th February 2011, 10:54 AM
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Yes you are correct. Did some more research and for others that might not be aware of what he's talking about...

The B&O system uses a MOST bus (Media Oriented System Transport) which carries the audio signal in addition to some control bits for sending information (audio and data) to and from each device in the system. This is how the devices like the MMI, Nav, Amps, etc all communicate. If you look closely in the rear quarter panel, you'll see that there are two optical cables going to each device. This is because the optical signal runs in a "daisy chain" serial connection. IE. one cable is going into the device (receive) and the other cable is sending data back out (transmit).

That being said, tapping into the optical data path requires more than just a standard optical Toslink to RCA converter. You would need a device to patch into the optical chain, decode the signal, and then pass the optical back out to the other devices.

That would require something like the mOBridge Digital Pre-Amp m1000-m-da1:
http://www.mobridgeinc.com/products/m1000-m-da1

Also attached here are the MOST Specifications if you're geek enough to be interested in reading it.

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post #18 of 38 Old 17th February 2011, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iinviktus View Post
I'm not comfortable doing this install on my own, so I got a couple of quotes from some local stereo shops. One mentioned that the mentioned sub is not meant for open-air, and recommended the JL ZR series. Does anyone have any info on the ZR? They said it would be able to play lower frequencies than the 10W1 and wouldn't hang as low in the trunk/shelf.
I did a lot of reading yesterday on what makes a good subwoofer driver for the open air configuration. Here are my findings but I suggest you do your own research to determine what will work best for you. I am in no way a speaker expert.

First, a quick background on Thiele-Small speaker parameters: "Thiele/Small" commonly refers to a set of electromechanical parameters that define the specified low frequency performance of a loudspeaker driver. These parameters are published in specification sheets by driver manufacturers so that designers have a guide in selecting off-the-shelf drivers for loudspeaker designs.

Key parameters for selecting an open-air or infinite baffle subwoofer:

Fs:
The frequency at which all the moving parts of the driver resonate. Think of it as the lowest frequency a driver will be able to produce. The following "Q" parameters then describe how well or how "happy" the sub will be to play at this frequency.

Qms:
The driver's Q at resonance (Fs), due to mechanical losses. This is roughly a measurement of how stiff the speaker's suspension is or how much control the speaker's spider and surround have over the cone's position. Because there is little air pressure in an open air system to dampen the cone's movement, a lower Qms (more loss to a stiffer suspension) should help dampen the movement and control the speaker. This seems contradictory because in a standard loudspeaker application a higher Qms would mean there is less dampening on the cone and the speaker has a better ability to move freely and produce clean bass.

Qes:
The driver's Q at resonance (Fs), due to electrical losses. A measurement based on the control coming from the speaker's electrical suspension system (the voice coil and magnet). This is relative to the strength of the motor BL, and the mass it has to control. Higher Qes means more electrical control of the cone.

Qts:
The driver's Total Q at resonance (Fs), due to all losses. This parameter is more important that picking either of the Qms or Qes independently because Qms (mechanical) and Qes (electrical) are directly related.

Qts = Qms * Qes / (Qms + Qes)

After researching numerous DIY speaker building forums and car audio forums, it sounds like the best performance from free-air setups like ours come from speakers with a Qts around 0.7 and a low Fs. It seems however that the relationships of the electromechanical parameters due to their relationships are give and take.

The next step for me will be to select a driver that best matches the above requirements. Here is my current list of driver candidates.
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post #19 of 38 Old 17th February 2011, 03:31 PM
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That would require something like the mOBridge Digital Pre-Amp m1000-m-da1:
http://www.mobridgeinc.com/products/m1000-m-da1
Here is the response I got from mObridge today when inquiring about the availability of the M1000-DA1:

"We are working on a DA2 product, that will have 8 channels worth on analogue output in addition to Toslink. This product is due out by early summer. The current DA1 is priced at $699 but we expect the new DA2 to be a bit less expensive." -mObridge sales

Yikes, $699 seems steep for an extra few Hz of bottom end going the digital route. I may have to do the analog line-level converter.

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post #20 of 38 Old 18th February 2011, 08:38 AM
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Additional comments from mObridge today. Granted this is just an email from one particular manufacture so I'll keep looking for other products.

"As of right now, you won’t find a product that captures audio in the digital domain (fiber optic) and allows for the retention of the factory amplifier. The vehicle will only support one amplifier on MOST, and that node has to be represented by either the actual factory amplifier, or our DA product. Since you have to remove and replace the entire amplifier, you need enough channels for all speakers in the vehicle, not just the subwoofer.

If you’re just interested in adding a subwoofer, then you’ll have to capture the audio signal from the analogue output of the factory amplifier. This unfortunately will already be processed, and more importantly, be affected by the vehicle’s loudness contour. In other words, it probably won’t sound very good. At least not at all the various volume levels or dynamic music."

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post #21 of 38 Old 18th February 2011, 11:53 AM
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I'm so glad I ordered my S5 without Nav; I only need to splice into good old fashioned copper from the receiver at the amp.
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post #22 of 38 Old 21st February 2011, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstev4610 View Post
I couldn't tell you with absolute certainty since I didn't do the install, but it was explained to me that rca's were tapped right at R157 on the diagram. The amp itself has a filter, so it's ran straight from the tap to the inputs. I can get the specifics for you if you need.
Who did your install? It looks fantastic! I am looking to do the same thing in my cab. Unfortunately, I will likely have to go with the smaller XD300/1 amplifier mounted on the surface of the left hand door as I do not have as much room under my B&O amp. Can you find out where they tapped the 12 volt trigger?
Thanks,
David

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post #23 of 38 Old 3rd March 2011, 04:03 AM
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I'd be interested in this info as well as not really impressed with the Bass response on the Cab. The standard B&O sub is so poor you wouldn't even know it was there apart from the tiny grill below the left rear armrest...

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post #24 of 38 Old 10th March 2011, 08:03 AM
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anyone have any suggestions on the best 10 inch free air sub to run off of a 500w amp?
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post #25 of 38 Old 10th March 2011, 08:54 AM Thread Starter
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I'll ask when I take the car in again next week. They had hot glued a support bracket behind the carpet to handle additional weight of the box, but it seems to have broken and the box has not been clipping in securely. I've hit hard right turns and twice the box popped out into the trunk. They're going to fab another support and screw it in behind the carpet this time, and we might put a snap in the pull tab that holds it to the top.

I'm in Missoula, MT, 406 Motoring did the install for me.
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post #26 of 38 Old 10th March 2011, 10:47 AM
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I'll ask when I take the car in again next week. They had hot glued a support bracket behind the carpet to handle additional weight of the box, but it seems to have broken and the box has not been clipping in securely. I've hit hard right turns and twice the box popped out into the trunk. They're going to fab another support and screw it in behind the carpet this time, and we might put a snap in the pull tab that holds it to the top.

I'm in Missoula, MT, 406 Motoring did the install for me.
Yeah, I wondered if that was going to be a problem. Let us know how it works out.

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post #27 of 38 Old 10th March 2011, 10:59 AM
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anyone have any suggestions on the best 10 inch free air sub to run off of a 500w amp?
Link to my install:
https://www.a5oc.com/forums/a5-perfor...-line-mod.html

I REALLY like the Image Dynamics IDQ10V3.D2. Do some research, but it has some excellent free-air parameters.

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post #28 of 38 Old 15th October 2011, 07:53 AM
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Question on adding a sub for a 2011 a5 convertible

I have the B&O system in the A5 convertible, but it doesn't have the sub because they wouldn't be able to install in the rear deck due to the top mechanics. I would like to add a sub. I am wondering if anyone knows if the B&O that I have has the capability to run a sub and it has just been disabled, thus I just need to VAG-COM it back on.

If you have the system with the sub, can you control the sub independently from the head unit?

If I add a sub, should I add an amp? Remember, my factory B&O didn't come with a sub, so if the coupes have a extra amp for a sub, I didn't get it. I am thinking I should add an amp anyway.

From where do I get the wires to run into the amp/sub? I imagine I wanted to be able to get my hands on line level outs if that's possible.
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post #29 of 38 Old 15th October 2011, 09:22 AM
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I'll repost this on the A5 site. Sorry.
447debbie is offline  
post #30 of 38 Old 15th October 2011, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 447debbie View Post
I have the B&O system in the A5 convertible, but it doesn't have the sub because they wouldn't be able to install in the rear deck due to the top mechanics.
There is a sub in the convertable, its in the rear side panel but its bloody useless.

2015 S5 Cabrio

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Previously:
A5 Coupe 3.2 Quattro S-line Special Edition
A5 Cabrio 2.0T S-line
A4 Cabrio 3.2 Quattro Sport
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