Vibration Issues

[Brakedust]

I feel really stupid and let me tell you why.

I'm gone alot due to my line of work and since I've been back for the last month I started getting the vibration issue it would start oscillating back and forth at around 62 MPH and got worse up to about 72MPH. Drove me nuts!

It was so bad that I was going to take it in and demand that they do the control arm fix. It was really making me not want the car any more, it was just no fun to drive.

Anyway, yesterday I was messing around in my garage and decided to check the tire pressures like I always do about once a month and used my stick gauge, they were all off about 1 PSI so I waited a few hours for the tires to cool and got out my new expensive digital gauge and filled them all to a perfect 33psi front 32psi back. By the way I have the summer performance tires.

Imagine my amazement when this morning on the way to work the car was as smooth as a babies bottom, not the slightest shimmy or shimmer. It was like driving a new car again I was actually giddy all the way to work and I literally fell in love with my car all over again.

Now I'm not saying that any of you are as stupid as I am but if you have been using a stick gauge or letting the dealership check your tires PSI maybe you should get a good digital gauge and do it yourself and see what happens.

Sorry for the long post but I felt that I had to share my experience.

Let the flames begin!

[LittleDevil]

33psi is 2.27bar, isn't that little low pressure?

Best Regards

[loc]

Frankly, I think Brakedust's post illustrates how multifaceted this issue is. I don't think there is - technically speaking - anything wrong with the A4/A5. But it is so picky about its wheels, that is seems very slight issues cause the vibrations to get through to the steering wheel. Some people report this coming and going (hopefully Brakedust won't get his back) which to me would suggest it might take just some rough dirt on a wheel that causes it, then when that is gone, all is back to good - or when wheels warm up and allow more distractions and again the vibration is gone too...

I doubt the control arms change anything else other than just add a bit more flex to the bushings that will allow the car to be more normal in the sense that some (normal) irregularities are allowed in the wheels without vibrations getting through.

So, while technically speaking there may be nothing wrong with the car, the sheer amount of these reports, the way no single fix seems to be full and permanent, suggests that the car is abnormally picky about its wheels - to the point that it is unacceptably so. Hopefully the new control arms/bushings reduce things to a more normal level.

I updated my summary article recently:

Tyre and vibration issues in Audi A4 B8/A5 (tips may benefit other models as well)
http://a6retrofit.tripod.com/article...vibration.html

[loc]

...I mean, doesn't anyone find it weird that you'd need a "good digital gauge" or a "Haweka wheel balancer tooling Special Tool and Equipment Program"... just so that your A4/A5/S5 steering wheel won't shimmy like hell?

[LittleDevil]

I got new control arms too, vibration is 90% gone. We order the newest (8K0 407 694N) control arms, but we got those:

Before: 8K0 407 696C and 8K0 407 695C

After: 8K0 407 696E and 8K0 407 695E





You can see that it is possible to make pics with wheels on, so all those who already have NEW control arms, can you make pics of yours?

Best Regards

[loc]

You can see that it is possible to make pics with wheels on, so all those who already have control arms, can you make pics of yours?

Well, I would certainly hope everyone has control arms! If they intend to drive...

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Thanks for the pics! I wonder why you got the E version and not N? What, I wonder, is the difference?

By 90% gone you mean there is still some vibration?

[LittleDevil]

Well, I would certainly hope everyone has control arms! If they intend to drive...

Typo

Thanks for the pics! I wonder why you got the E version and not N? What, I wonder, is the difference?

By 90% gone you mean there is still some vibration?

I'm wonder too why I get E version... I have bad tires on the car now. On some roads I feel little vibration at about 110km/h, but on most roads vibration is 100% gone.

I will tell you more when I change tires and make some more km's with my car.

Best Regards

[Graham]

Originally Posted by Graham

I'll investigate further, but need to fix it properly, so that if I need to remove a wheel for some reason ( bound to be a puncture in the pouring rain and dark! ) they will go back in the correct place!

Well, investigation and mystery over now! These MTM spacers must have been engineered by Noddy when Big ears wasn't looking

Because the offset is roughly equal to the protrusion of the wheel hub, and the I.D and O.D. need to be the same to register the wheel, it results in zero wall thickness See Pics. and the register dia consequently breaks free and resides inside the wheel the first time you take it off

I'll bore them out and fit some inserts with a wall thickness that works!

[Meteor Ghost]

I just had all of my tires road force balanced and none of them were off by very much at all. I had them put the lowest road force numbers towards the driver and so on, took the car for a drive and I still have the vibration with the H&R spacers.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by Meteor Ghost

I just had all of my tires road force balanced and none of them were off by very much at all. I had them put the lowest road force numbers towards the driver and so on, took the car for a drive and I still have the vibration with the H&R spacers.

All these things about control arms etc will make a small difference to how the problem shows itself when driving the car, but they will not deal with the source of the problem.

It's obvious that your problem is related to the spacers ( as was mine ).

In my case, the hubcentric registration of the spacers was completely ineffective, so the only centralising guide for the wheel was the clearance between the wheel studs and the respective holes in the wheel ( approx 0.5mm radial clearnace ).

The wheel and tyre assembly is quite heavy, so a very small eccentricity will create large imbalance forces. Then add to that any effects of peripheral run out

Note: Road force balancing will not cure the imbalance created by eccentric mounting of the wheel.

I recommend checking the registration fits of the wheels on the spacers and the spacers on the hubs, and if that alone doesn't solve it, then the concentricity of the male to female aspects of the spacers need checking.

[Meteor Ghost]

Thanks but I've removed the spacers and reseated them just to make sure that I had them installed "perfectly".

I think my next diagnoses is playing around with the air pressure. I'm at stock psi front/rear and will now try a little higher to see what happens.

[loc]

Look, crooked spacers aside - but I would disagree with this:

All these things about control arms etc will make a small difference to how the problem shows itself when driving the car, but they will not deal with the source of the problem.

I don't know if control arms are the cure, but so far they have been the most promising one. But whatever the source of the problem, I don't think it is reasonable to conclude the source is just imperfections in wheels (in the rubber, wheel, spacer, bolts, pressure whatever)... because, I believe a car is supposed to handle some level of imperfection! Because in reality there always is some imperfection there. A4/A5, early models especially, seems awfully picky about this.

Even if you removed your spacers, experience suggests you would redevelop the shimmy at some point after road-force balancing. Of course again a new set of wheels, new road-force balancing, playing with pressure and all that (using the special tools AoA recommended for example), and you'd get it all perfect again - but that is hardly reasonable. Hopefully the control arms/bushings are a real cure to the pickiness of the A4/A5 (or if not, some other warranty method arrives), I guess time will tell.

[Graham]

Guys it's not rocket science. He has taken them on and off a number of times now, and every time without the spacers there is NO problem. Therefore the spacers are causing it! The control arm issues may certianly exagerate the problem, but I would focus first on the cause.
Over to you and Good Luck.

[loc]

Originally Posted by Graham

Guys it's not rocket science. He has taken them on and off a number of times now, and every time without the spacers there is NO problem. Therefore the spacers are causing it! The control arm issues may certianly exagerate the problem, but I would focus first on the cause.
Over to you and Good Luck.

Yes, but here's the deal:

MANY have reported vibration issues returning after road-force balancing once the tyres wear out a little. With or without spacers.

So, crooked spacers may certainly make the problem worse, maybe they would in any car - but that doesn't change the fact that an abnormal amount of vibration issues have surfaced on the A5/A4 B8. For which road-force balancing is not a final solution...

My prediction: take off the spacers, drive 10-20k and vibration is back. Without spacers.

[Meteor Ghost]

Here's what I found out today. I put a few psi [42 psi] more in the front tires and the vibration is not as noticeable but it's slightly still there. I may play with it more to see how I end up. This is just a temporary fix until I get Audi to replace the control arms.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by loc

Yes, but here's the deal:

MANY have reported vibration issues returning after road-force balancing once the tyres wear out a little. With or without spacers.

So, crooked spacers may certainly make the problem worse, maybe they would in any car - but that doesn't change the fact that an abnormal amount of vibration issues have surfaced on the A5/A4 B8. For which road-force balancing is not a final solution...

My prediction: take off the spacers, drive 10-20k and vibration is back. Without spacers.

I'm not sure about the start of this thread and I may have pulled it offtrack a little because I joined it at about page 8, in an attempt to respond specifically to M.G's issue. I'm not doubting that there are other issues regarding the general sensitivity of the A5 model to slight imbalance. And I dare say that M.G's car could develop imbalance over time as a result of a number of issues. All I am saying is, stand back and look at the specific facts for M.G's case. I'll wager a considerable sum that HIS current issue is spacer related, and WILL be resolved by fixing the spacers! Any Takers?

[loc]

Sure, spacers may be the immediate cause in his case, I do agree - however there are other factors.

Here's what I wrote in another thread today when someone was saying hard Dunlops were the cause of problems (of course the problems manifest themselves on many, many brands):

Heyrenzo: It certainly is a combination of things, but I think it just illustrates the point how picky A4/A5 is when it comes to wheels - and especially how picky the steering is. Audi did a completely new chassis setup for the A4/A5 family and clearly there are some kinks to be resolved still. I guess the steering may be more precise then ever, but with obvious downsides... I can understand it driving you crazy!

I was just today driving an A6 that had been standing over the weekend parked. When I got on the motorway some time after leaving home, the front of the car started vibrating with obvious signs of flat-spotting due to standing for a weekend and cold wheels (was a cold-ish morning). But nothing, absolutely nothing on the steering wheel. No shimmy, none whatsoever even when removing hands from the wheel. After a minute or two the wheels warmed up and flat-spotting and chassis vibrations were gone too as expected. Perfectly acceptable.

So I know some vibrations in some conditions normal, but the way A4/A5 seem to transmit them to the steering wheel and are so susceptible to shimmy and vibrations otherwise too, judging from posts, looks to me abnormal. None of my Audis (I don't have new A4/A5) have shown this problem, ever. So perhaps Dunlops are more difficult wheels than some, but it seems early A4/A5 require some perfect combination of wheels and magic beans to not have this issue.

So, let's hope the new bushings in the new control arms have gotten things back to a more normal level and early owners can get their warranty fixes. I am certainly hopeful this is the case.

[chuck]

Dropped my car off for the 5K check up. Told my mechanic about the vibration coming back after they did Road Force 2000 miles ago. He said he had heard about it and is going to call Audi about it. I'll post and let you know what the outcome is.

C.

[Heyrenzo]

Originally Posted by chuck

Dropped my car off for the 5K check up. Told my mechanic about the vibration coming back after they did Road Force 2000 miles ago. He said he had heard about it and is going to call Audi about it. I'll post and let you know what the outcome is.

C.

Thanks Chuck, please do so. My 3rd appointment with my dealership on this specific issue (after two road force balancing and mount match procedures) is on September 1st. I'll also post about the outcome.

[chuck]

Got my car back and no new control arms. They did tire rotation and set tire pressures and claim there is no "shimmy". There was too much traffic this morning to properly check, but I'll re-post later. Sounds like the same ole song and dance. I'll bet the "shimmy" comes back in at least a week or less.

As for updates they did the usual 5K stuff, but they also "Updated the wheel dampening electronic control unit." I'm guessing this is the Drive Select update others have mentioned. In Auto mode my steering seems tighter than before. Before the steering felt more like the comfort setting when it was in auto mode.

C.

[sso]

Hi everyone,I have A5 2008/11 mmi3g,with the same vibrations from 100-120 kph,the car is only 10000 km run.I have Dunlop tyres 255/35 r19 and without any spacers.So I start feel vibration one month ago and was very often client on our Audi dealer they said that problem is original wheels,I take it to repairing and they was very little imperfection now,I feel the same vibration Audi saying that problem is with tyres which was not stored perfectly therefore I asked them to change it,will keep you posted about update in my situations.

[loc]

sso, thank you for the report.

*sarcasm on*

I can't believe all these faulty tyres that are out there, many threads and dozens of pages of A5OC.com worth!

*sarcasm off*

[chuck]

Reporting back, it really has stopped "shimmying". Question is for how long.

C.

[rade2008]

hello,

i have a vibration on steering wheel at 100-120 km/h. i have 19 inch rims with goodyear eagle f1 asymmetric.
First, i change 2 wheels (front right and front left) with 17" wheels (winter tyres ), leaving behind the 19" rims, and NO vibration.So, i said that the problem is front croocked rims.I bought 2 new 19 inch rims for the front. appear the same vibration
What should i do? i read above about the replacement of control arms...
be the solution?

thanks

[loc]

I recommend trying to control arms swap, everything else seems to be non-permanent solution - and not even the control arms may fully solve it.

Very picky car about wheels.

[moe561]

take it in tell them its the control arms they will fix it in 8 weeks i took mine in for the 4th time just stay on top of them audi is a chep ass when it comes to fixing shit for free and if ur car is dropped they will make you rase it back up sorry for the spelling im albanian so i dont care

[rade2008]

but why with 17" winter wheels in the front no vibrations...and with NEW 19" rims vibrations occur...

if control arms is no longer good the steering wheel had to vibrate with 17" winter wheels too

[BMWBig6]

Originally Posted by rade2008

but why with 17" winter wheels in the front no vibrations...and with NEW 19" rims vibrations occur...

That actually doesn't surprise me. 19" tires have much shorter sidewalls that are generally stiffer too (transmitting any vibrations more easily to the suspension and steering wheel). 17" tires have taller sidewalls that are usually more compliant, and are thus more forgiving in nature (absorbing or masking the vibrations). The inherent problem (if suspension-related) is still there, but the 19" combo probably just amplifies its effects more.

[rade2008]

Originally Posted by BMWBig6

That actually doesn't surprise me. 19" tires have much shorter sidewalls that are generally stiffer too (transmitting any vibrations more easily to the suspension and steering wheel). 17" tires have taller sidewalls that are usually more compliant, and are thus more forgiving in nature (absorbing or masking the vibrations). The inherent problem (if suspension-related) is still there, but the 19" combo probably just amplifies its effects more.

i understand..and what should i do? change the control arms?

[BMWBig6]

Originally Posted by rade2008

i understand..and what should i do? change the control arms?

That's what I would seek, if the other methods (re-mounting, re-balancing, replacing tires) doesn't work. And I'd only deal with the dealership while the 19" tires/wheels are mounted. If they can eliminate the vibration with the 19's on (worst case scenario), then the 17's should (theoretically) ride even smoother whenever you put those on.