A5 Insurance ..Modifications or Options?!

[markus]

Morning All

Long time since I have been on here. I 'had' a A5 3.0 TDI, 2.5 years old from new, loaded with options. In addition the car was worked on by APS (spacers, coils, exhaust, remap etc).

As soon as I had the 'modifications' I let Direct Line Insurance know. They are all listed clearly.

Moving forward ... my car was stolen 10 days ago from outside my house - the house was also done over which is how they got the spare hidden set of keys. The car was the involved in a police chase in London where the driver was arrested. The car was damaged and I find out later today how much (I am told the front end is 'crunched'.

This is of course going through the insurance... which is then the motivation for the following simple question (which I guess is aimed at UK driver but would welcome comments from any of you) ....

When you insured your car did you 'list' ALL your 'options' - fitted before you took delivery of your car - as 'modifications' do your 'base model'?

e.g.

Heated door mirror
Electric seats
Advanced packing assist
and so on ...?

The reason I ask is I was quite shocked to discover that reading the small print clearly indicates that any fitted 'options' are 'modifications' and should be declared.

Now.. the base price of my car at the time was 32K but I insured for 40K on the basis that should the car need to be replaced like for like within the first year then I would get a car with all the options. At the time of taking out the policy the insurer made no specific comment as to why the 'list price' of the car was 32K but was being insured for 40K. Therefore I took that to mean they understand that most German cars are filled with options...

I am not sure where this will take me yet. Obviously if I were part exchanging my car at three years then the options become less valuable in terms of part exchange price.

Anyway, I just wondered what you lot had declared. Might be worth checking your policy if you have not...?

cheers

Mark

[Shrek]

I was wondering about this the other day actually. What I've started to do is make sure that I state they are factory fitted options and then tell them what they are if they want to know.

It seems to me that there is a bit of a grey area regarding modifications vs. options. I had always thought that it was modifications (engine remap, aftermarket ICE etc) that had to be declared but anything factory fitted as an option was OK.

This doesn't seem to be the case based on your experience nor mine to a limited extent. Hope it gets sorted and you aren't left out of pocket.

[ChristopherPovey]

Admiral (my insurance company) it quite clearly states that all modifications and options must stated. So when I ran them up I gave them the basic spec as in my signature. He then asked for the value of the car, so I gave him the on the road price (calculated at 17.5%). He then asked about options and mods. So I listed B&O, Interior Light Pack and Symphony Radio. I also offered to price them all but he was not bothered. When the certificate arrived a couple of days later the options section was empty! However the valuation was the figure I gave them.

I rang them up and queried it and they basically said that they are only interested in performance or desirability mods. So for example if I had put 20" Audi alloys on it.

So if your original valuation of the car was correct you should get that amount back minus depreciation. If you gap insurance it will fill in the difference.

[shmee150]

Originally Posted by ChristopherPovey

Admiral (my insurance company) it quite clearly states that all modifications and options must stated. So when I ran them up I gave them the basic spec as in my signature. He then asked for the value of the car, so I gave him the on the road price (calculated at 17.5%). He then asked about options and mods. So I listed B&O, Interior Light Pack and Symphony Radio. I also offered to price them all but he was not bothered. When the certificate arrived a couple of days later the options section was empty! However the valuation was the figure I gave them.

I rang them up and queried it and they basically said that they are only interested in performance or desirability mods. So for example if I had put 20" Audi alloys on it.

So if your original valuation of the car was correct you should get that amount back minus depreciation. If you gap insurance it will fill in the difference.

I didn't think that was strictly true but now I have my doubts. I too am with Admiral but I thought only "modifications" they need to be told about are those that were not from the dealership on delivery. I'm now worried about my current car that also obviously has a few thousand pounds of extras on.

Just looking at the site now I've found these 2 conflicting phrases:

Modifications
Please enter if your car is modified.

A modification is any change to the car away from the manufacturer's standard specification including optional extras, such as alloy wheels, body styling kits and exhaust/carburettor upgrades.

If you are uncertain whether your car is modified or not, please check with your local garage.

Please note - if you make a claim for loss or damage to your car, we will only pay the cost of replacing standard parts or optional extras from the car manufacturer. Non standard parts or modifications are not covered.

The first part obviously makes it clear that you do have to declare everything, the second part implies you don't.

The solution; I'm going to call them right now...

EDIT: Held for 5 mins, but gave up, 0800 numbers aren't free from mobile

Tim

[shmee150]

I've been over the online quote a bit, and for me I have ticked:

Alloy Wheels (Optional Extra)
Interior Changes
Parking Sensors
Sports/Active Suspens(opt ext)

It only goes up £72 (6%) a year versus not checking those boxes. For preparation of the future changes I am going to make including either MTM/Sportec upgrades and a body colour-change wrap it tells me to call them because of making too many changes! (maximum 6!)

[ChristopherPovey]

The actual policy document states:

Originally Posted by Admiral Policy

You policy does not cover any non standard parts (modifications). Manufacturers optional extras are only covered if they have been declared and we have agreed to cover them.

If you make a claim for loss or damage to your car, we will only pay the cost of replacing parts needed for your car to meet the manufacturer's specification.

So the way that reads is that aftermarket mods are not covered. I declared my manufacturers optional extras, but they are not listed on my certificate. However, I valued the car at the price it would cost to replace it today including the value of the optional extras. So I assume the payout will be based on that figure. Might give them another ring next week to make sure though.

[martininwillerby]

I think listing factory options is only for new cars. I you buy second hand then it's not required.
If at a later stage you add non standard items or mods then you have to inform the insurance company and they adjust your premium so.
Having had two brand new cars insured with direct line in the last 8 months or so both times they have asked for a list of fitted optional extras but it hasn't incured a extra premium.
Hope this is of use.

Martininwillerby

PS.. Just sorted next years insurance out with direct line. 7 yrs protected NCD, the wife to drive, all options listed, 8k mile year, legal cover and hire car is £28.59 per month. I'm 42 next birthday.
I thought that was good.

[GaryWilliams]

Hi Folks, correct me if I'm wrong but most UK mainstream insurers no longer offer new for old brand new cars - Therefore the moment you drive it off the forecourt they will pay fair market value. So if you bought a £43k list car, went silly with the options and ended up playing £49k, then the insurance company would still only offer you fair market value of say £35-38k if it was killed or lost within the first year.

All that putting a higher value on an insurance proposal is doing is pushing your premium price up.

The best option is realistic valuation on your regular insurance with an additional return-to-invoice style GAP insurance.

Or am I barking?

Gary

[shmee150]

I spoke to Admiral, and the seemingly silly man, because he kept referring to factory fitted options as "mods" (I feel slightly insulted that a factory spec car can be considered to be modded...) told me that I do have to tick all of the boxes for everything extra that is included on my car.

I wonder if that leaves room for another company to creep in under the price as many will accept manufacturer factory fitted options included I think.

Also it is VERY cheeky if this is the case that they allow you to enter any figure, surely they know the exact list price of every car and therefore should either not let you edit this field, or jump to the conclusion if you enter a higher figure that options are on the car.

When I pay my first year on my S5, in my driving so far in my life I'll have paid a total of over £8000 on car insurance and am yet to make a single claim on anything. It's quite depressing actually.

Tim

[ChristopherPovey]

Originally Posted by shmee150

Also it is VERY cheeky if this is the case that they allow you to enter any figure, surely they know the exact list price of every car and therefore should either not let you edit this field, or jump to the conclusion if you enter a higher figure that options are on the car.

I can understand valuing the car when it is brand new and your insuring it for the first time, but on subsequent years, how would I know how much its value has gone unless I look on the web for the same car, or use one of the pricing guides? I would have thought the insurance company would have a far better idea of how much a year old A5 Cab S-line would cost!!!

[GaryWilliams]

Chris, that's actually a good point too. Insurance companies don't generally adjust down, that's way it's normally possible to save money by shopping around because you put a revised price in. The other variable in your control is the mileage, this can make a large difference to your premium, so make sure it's as accurate as you can - don't think I normally do 12k a year, so I'll opt for 15k to cover it.

If you go to cancel a policy and they try to keep you as a customer, they often ask you to adjust these values to get the price down.

[doubledoom]

When you insured your car did you 'list' ALL your 'options' - fitted before you took delivery of your car - as 'modifications' do your 'base model'?

You should tell the insurer of every option you have that is not specific to your level of trim. i.e. if you have an s-line then you dont need to list the s-line trim options. However, if you paid for a factory fitted option on top of that you should declare those and let the insurer decide if it is treated as a cost modification or not.

Some factory fitted options they wont care about. However, some they will note. They may not charge extra though in many cases if its factory/dealer fitted. Although some will.

[shmee150]

Originally Posted by doubledoom

You should tell the insurer of every option you have that is not specific to your level of trim. i.e. if you have an s-line then you dont need to list the s-line trim options. However, if you paid for a factory fitted option on top of that you should declare those and let the insurer decide if it is treated as a cost modification or not.

Some factory fitted options they wont care about. However, some they will note. They may not charge extra though in many cases if its factory/dealer fitted. Although some will.

Do you think I should try to explain every option (check my signature) to the person on the phone? Odds are they won't understand what nearly everything is.

[Mulski]

Originally Posted by shmee150

Do you think I should try to explain every option (check my signature) to the person on the phone? Odds are they won't understand what nearly everything is.

Suspect it might be easier for the conversation to go something like this with the insurer:

Shmee ..."right look down your list to the 'ski bag' option"...

Insurer..."yes sir got that"

Shmee..."right I haven't got that"

Insurer..."err sir, I thought we were going the options you do have??"

Shmee..."exactly, I want to save time! Everything else on your list - mark it down that I have it!!!"

Insurer..."No sh*t, oops sorry sir - okay will ensure your records are updated. Thank you"

Cheers

[shmee150]

Originally Posted by Mulski

Suspect it might be easier for the conversation to go something like this with the insurer:

Amazing post! I had the ski bag on my order list originally though... Then I found out it was literally just a ski bag so I cancelled that one, I've got enough of them. Hehe.

[ChristopherPovey]

Shmee,

I would imagine the only ones they would be intereseted in are, "Audi Drive Select, Quattro Sports Differential, Damping Control", as these enhance the performance of the car.

[morski]

Direct Line's policy:
'Modifications – are any changes to your car’s standard
specification, including optional extras. These include, but are not
restricted to, changes to the appearance and/or the performance of
your car (including wheels, suspension, bodywork and engine) and
include changes made to your car by the previous owner(s).'

Well that sucks! why should an optional extra be classed as a modification. Its not a body kit or bigger 'after market' wheels or an engine performance change. Im sure they never had this policy a number of years ago when a mod was a chav mod

[doubledoom]

Do you think I should try to explain every option (check my signature) to the person on the phone? Odds are they won't understand what nearly everything is.

Yes I do.

For reference I own a financial services company and have some knowledge on this. You will get some insurers that dont give two hoots. You will get some that will note it all and possibly charge more. However, let them decide. Not you.

I would imagine the only ones they would be intereseted in are, "Audi Drive Select, Quattro Sports Differential, Damping Control", as these enhance the performance of the car.

Anything that can enhance or alter the performance or handling or alter the look of the car to make it more visually appealing (alloys, spoiler etc)

Amazing post! I had the ski bag on my order list originally though... Then I found out it was literally just a ski bag so I cancelled that one, I've got enough of them. Hehe.

Ski bag was free back when I got my S5. Therefore not an option that needed to be declared. It was part of the model specification.

[shmee150]

Originally Posted by doubledoom

Ski bag was free back when I got my S5. Therefore not an option that needed to be declared. It was part of the model specification.

Interesting post, thanks. I am amazed I never knew this, I always just assumed that the "modified" check box on the online form (I've only ever bought insurance online) was for proper mods so I've never declared it. Sounds to me like the best shout is to declare the value, not declare any mods, and buy a gap policy.

Also re ski bag, now they charge £70 for it!

[markus]

Dear All

Thanks for the comments ! I did wonder if this was a 'dead duck' question but I am glad it got some interest and it is clear from some of you that you are not 100% sure what to declare, whilst others have gone the safe routine and done it all (something I will do next time).

It does not help when the Direct Line Schedule lists my modifications (i.e. remap etc) under a heading that says :

Modifications (e.g. wheels, engine upgrade, spoiler etc).

In other words whilst their policy states 'options are modifications', their own Schedule with the certificate appears to be more in line with what I thought ...

Anyway .. 0830 today ... get to see the car for the first time.

I think I am going to be ordering a new one anyway, do not fancy driving my own anymore. And as someone noted above, I cannot wait to be on the phone to Direct Line and say ...


"hmmm need to declare the Audi Drive Select, Quattro Sports Differential, Damping Control"

Thanks all

Mark

[gruffle]

hmmm... good thread this ....

I haven't checked recently but I'm sure that insurance compaies have a get out along the lines of if you dont declare everything correctly they can refuse to payout in the event of a claim

interior light pack - sorry sir you didn't declare that - your insurance is invalid?

I have never considered any of this as I have always considered "options" as bits stuck on by the dealer and "modifications" as bits stuck on in a halfrauds car pack, oh and not forgetting proper modifications done by APS et al of course.

I have just considered it was a car specified on Audi and insured it for the correct value. Guess I have to revisit this now.

With the plethora of variously hopeless online sites now, I wonder how easy it is to actaully state these correctly then for the insurance companies to understand the difference between MMI3G sat nav and a tomtom?

Maybe this can be back to the days of brokers - fax/email them the vehicle spec and tell them to insure it. It is their fault then if it isnt insured correctly.

[shmee150]

Originally Posted by gruffle

I have never considered any of this as I have always considered "options" as bits stuck on by the dealer and "modifications" as bits stuck on in a halfrauds car pack, oh and not forgetting proper modifications done by APS et al of course.

Maybe this can be back to the days of brokers - fax/email them the vehicle spec and tell them to insure it. It is their fault then if it isnt insured correctly.

Firstly fantastic summary, secondly good thinking, I'm going to be on that asap.

[T-Boy]

One of the reasons that I use Elephant.co.uk is that there is a section where I can tick any modifications (engine remap, alloys, body kits etc). It also differentiates between manufacture upgrades for alloys, or after market ones.

I'm not sure if they are the cheapest, but they are reasonable, and I use them because I can tick the mods. Don't want the insurance company to not pay out because it's been modified and not told them about it.

Would be a nightmare for them to not pay out if the car is stolen because the alloys you upgraded was not specified in the insurance, and as they are a visual upgrade, made the car more "attractive" to be stolen.

I also went for gap protection back to list price for 3 years just for the peace of mind it gives. Won't have to worry about getting a low valuation for the car.


Any way, hope things work out for you

[ChristopherPovey]

Elephant and Admiral are one and the same company. Both have the same address in Cardiff. When I did a 'comparison' website quote for my car the cheapest was elephant (of the ones listed, which did not include Admiral). On closer inspection the prices were the same between Elephant and Admiral.

[shmee150]

Originally Posted by ChristopherPovey

Elephant and Admiral are one and the same company. Both have the same address in Cardiff. When I did a 'comparison' website quote for my car the cheapest was elephant (of the ones listed, which did not include Admiral). On closer inspection the prices were the same between Elephant and Admiral.

And they use the same internet quote forms

[doubledoom]

I haven't checked recently but I'm sure that insurance compaies have a get out along the lines of if you dont declare everything correctly they can refuse to payout in the event of a claim

interior light pack - sorry sir you didn't declare that - your insurance is invalid?

Not quite.

The FOS came out with some guidelines a few years back regarding non-disclosure. If its intentional non disclosure then the insurance company can reject the claim and keep your premiums. If its unintentional, they will honour the claim as long as they would have offered cover in the first place had the information been declared. Any additional cost that would have been on the premiums would be deducted from the claim payout (or you will have to pay if its not a total loss in case of car insurance). If they would not have offered cover in the first place they will void the policy from inception and refund your premiums.

interior light pack - sorry sir you didn't declare that - your insurance is invalid?

Something like that wont interest them. Wheels, suspension, body kits and anything visual and engine enhancements etc.

i.e. if you bought 20 inch alloys but the standard for an S5 is 19 inch then they may take an interest in that. However, they would unlikely increase the premium but would note it.

Your age can make a difference as well. I seem to recall Ian saying he had to pay extra when he notified the insurer of the changes made by APS. Yet when I notified mine, they altered the schedule and listed the changes (in a generic way) but didnt charge me any more.

[devlin57]

I just got off the phone to Admiral. Having read this post I wanted to make sure their quote took full account of the optional extras on the car when it arrives. I had ticked some as mods on their quote page (drive select, parking cam etc) but there were a few that didn't fit (B&O, folding mirrors, heated seats etc).

Having re-run the quote on this basis on the phone, it came out £35 higher. I hummed and hawwed and was put on hold. He came back and said that since they are all Audi factory fitted options and I have declared them upfront then I don't have to pay for the Modifications cover (£35), they will be covered in the base quote.

Devlin

[markus]

Thanks for that....

As the person who started the post I have been very interested to see what others thought.Well, as it happens there has been no probs with my insurance and the car is currently being repaired (5K of damage). I do not really want the car ...

... so I am about to order a new 3.0TDI (S-line Special edition) with all the toys - and just to be sure I will be listing them all ... but not expecting to pay any more - we shall see !!

rgs

Mark

[spike]

After failing to get straight answers from some of the mainstream insurers I decided to take a more cautious approach to my insurance by dealing direct with a broker (A-Plan). They sorted me a bespoke underwritten policy listing all options and their value.

I paid over the odds for this but thought it worth the money, especially if I ever need to invoke the policy.