Hesitation under light acceleration - A5_OC


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Old 12th May 2011, 06:49 AM   #1
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Default Hesitation under light acceleration

Audi A5 2009 - 3.2 6MT - S-Line (USA)

I know there have been a few posts on this particular subject covering the following:-

COIL PACKS
THROTTLE CONTROL
THROTTLE BODY
EMU/C UPDATES
FUEL
AIR
EXHAUST VALVE !
Etc

There seems to be a minor lag (jerk) at certain RPM 2500 - 3500 under light acceleration and some feeling of resistance on acceleration. I did not notice this when the car was new but after several months it became evident. Several discussions/work with the dealership and no solution. Living with this glitch for over 12 months. Audi USA is now involved but a slow process.

Anyone have any success in resolving. This seems to be happening on both the 2.0T, 3.2v6 auto and MT cars so it has to be something that is common to all those !!

Any further suggestions and updates?
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Old 12th May 2011, 07:35 AM   #2
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I have been having the same problem with my 2.0T. The dealer can't find any thing. I also did not notice it when it was brand new, but after a couple of months it started. My coupe is 2010 2.0T mt6.



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Old 17th May 2011, 07:21 PM   #3
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Thanks JimR - there appears to be something here that Audi is not dealing with. I just got off the phone with Audi America today and they said the dealer's technical engineers have no answer and no technical updates.

I indicated this was not sufficient. I urge you and anyone else who is experiencing this to contact Audi America and log the issue so they have a record.

I am thinking could it be something to do with the Valve lift technology, interface with the throttle and EMU !!!

I have never experienced this with a car in the past, do not have the problem with my 2008 TT hence it must be something on the B8 platform.

Thanks
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Old 11th August 2011, 10:13 AM   #4
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I just wanted to post a reply here as well to let you know that my 09 A5 3.2 6MT is also experiencing this issue. It's done it since new (I remember a pretty good lurch while accelerating during the initial test drive). It now has 30k miles on it.

Cold weather (usually 8 months of the year here < 50 degress F) seems to make it worse. Sometimes there's a slight lurch or misfire feel, other times it will be a pretty significant lurch. Usually it happens > 3000 rpm under light acceleration ~3 or 4 seconds in 1st and 2nd and just before my usual shift point. Sometimes I'll feel it in higher gears but not as often.

Dealer has had the car 4 times now and are at a loss to the cause, but they admit they can feel it. They are unsure if this is "normal" because they claim not a lot of 3.2 manual A5's are in the US. Also am working with Audi USA on the issue, but they are only repeating what the dealer tells them.

They still have the car and are trying to diagnose further. One conjecture is the variable valve timing mechanism causing the hesitation, but that is just a guess at this point.

If I get any more information or get the issue resolved, I'll post it back here.



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Old 11th August 2011, 11:37 AM   #5
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Default Confirmation A5.Cab 2.0T

Same thing happened to me starting at about 2k-2.5k miles. I was wondeing if it was US gas quality, or perhaps just not really pushing the car regularly? Any how will be mentioning it to Audi Dealer next week at the initial 5k checkup.
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Old 11th August 2011, 01:08 PM   #6
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Gas quality might be factor, but I've tried several different brands and locations, including running regular and mid-grade. The gas in my county is oxygenated up to 10% (ethanol, I think) which could also contribute to poor performance. However, that said, I've been driving a loaner Q5 with the same motor (automatic transmission tho) that doesn't have any driveability issues on the same gas.



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Old 28th August 2011, 04:14 AM   #7
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I have a 2011 S5 which I just picked up a month ago and was able to drive for 2 weeks while I was home on R&R, and I noticed the same thing. It had 23 miles on it when I picked it up and it now has roughly 1600 mile on it from a road trip I took while I was home and I'm pretty sure I noticed the jerking/lag on a fairly regular basis. I'm back in Afghanistan now so I'm not in any position to call Audi, but I plan on taking it in when I get back and having this checked out.



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Old 28th August 2011, 06:11 AM   #8
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I've brought my car in to several different Audi service departments for the exact same thing and they can't figure it out.
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Old 28th August 2011, 06:12 AM   #9
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That's intersting that your car would be experiencing the same thing with a different engine. If the issue is the same, then it would point to something other than an internal engine issue.

I don't have much of an update yet, the dealer still has my car (going on 4 weeks now). I took two mechanics for another ride along to re-confirm the issue and they keep stating that they think it's a misfire, although they can't get any readings on the diagnostic computer.

One of the theories which I think has been disproved is the rev-limiter. When the car is out of gear, the rev limiter kicks in about 3800 RPM. If it was malfunctioning, it could cause a momentary loss of power as the rpm passes that point. However, during the last ride along, the car was hesitating twice during acceleration... as it passed 2800 rpm and again around 3800 rpm. It's not always the same RPM but its usually consistent.

Seems to be more pronounced if there are more people in the car (heavier engine load).

Hopefully they'll figure it out soon.



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Old 16th September 2011, 10:43 AM   #10
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Default Updated: Possible Cause & Resolution

So, the dealer had my car in the shop for over 40 days on this issue and it was escalated to an Audi service engineer who also spent time diagnosing the problem.

Their best guess (diagnosis) of the problem is something to do with the Audi valve lift system. There is a solenoid that activates the camshaft/valve mechanism to transition the engine from "power" to "economy" mode between 3000-4000 rpm under light acceleration. When the system is deactivated, the hesitation (lurch, misfire feeling) doesn't occur, however the car won't operate normally with the system deactivated.

The engineer claimed that Audi is aware of only 3 vehicles (2 A5's and 1 A4) with the same engine/transmission combination that exhibit a hesitation or misfire feeling.

At this time, they don't have a fix and due to the low number of known/reported cases, they probably won't ever have a true resolution. They have no explanation as to why the activation of the Audi valve lift mechanism is noticable in my car.

Their solution in order to help alleviate the noticable hesitation was to replace the fuel injectors with a different type (something about a different spray pattern).

While I was skeptical of this "fix", the new injectors have actually helped quite a bit. I've only noticed the hesitation happening once (although I've also found that by accelerating a little more aggressively also limits the occurances). The new injectors have drastically improved overall throttle response and smoothness during shifting and throttle release... it seems as though when I lift off the throttle, instead of the engine RPMs immediately dropping and feeling that off-throttle lurch, it smoothly disengages with a slight delay. Same with on-throttle response -- overall it's much smoother.

A couple of somewhat unrelated notes.... the car has a neutral rev-limiter that kicks in at 3800 rpm when the car is not in gear and also when the clutch pedal is even slightly depressed during acceleration. I've accidentally activated the limiter when accelerating hard in first gear because I've left my foot touching the clutch pedal in anticipation of a quick shift into 2nd. It's pretty noticable when you hit the limiter because the car will basially nose dive during the acceleration or it will feel like the clutch is slipping.

Second note... the dealer pulled off the intake manifold to inspect it and the valves. I asked about carbon build up and they said it wasn't bad at all, pretty much "normal" for 30,000 miles and not something that should be affecting performance or driveability. To the best of my knowledge they didn't clean it.



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Old 16th September 2011, 11:06 AM   #11
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Well i also have the same problem with my 2.0T 2010 as it is this way since day one so i guess reading you guys im not the only one with a problem that pees me off since day one ..
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Old 16th September 2011, 04:55 PM   #12
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You SHOULD have had them clean the carbon build up from your valves while they were there replacing your fuel injectors.
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Old 16th September 2011, 05:15 PM   #13
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i have this and my dealer says there is an ecu update which they are going to do on wednesday
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Old 19th September 2011, 03:43 AM   #14
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Default Update of Hesitation

Thanks to everyone that has recently posted. From what I am hearing this is not an isolated incident and more and more people are experiencing it. It would definitely point towards a common component or technology on the B8 platform such as the valve lift technology. I urge everyone to notify audi america of the issues if they have not done already to build enough cases for them to find a permanent fix.

I still have the problem after 23k and have raised the issue since the cars 5k service. I will re-address at its 25k service with the added info everyone has provided.

I am guessing that if we are talking VLT and solenoids etc it could be a very costly fix which we should aim to have resolution on before the warranty ends !

Keep the posts coming and I will update you after the next service.

eclimax13 - you say there is an ECU update - are you driving 6MT or Auto - the ECU update I believe was for the auto, but if this is a new update then may be they have found a software fix. Would be interested to know what results you get.

Thanks
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Old 19th September 2011, 05:15 AM   #15
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I have a 6 speed
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Old 19th September 2011, 05:54 PM   #16
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Default Hesitation under light acceleration

Thanks - let us know what the ECU update is and does to your car once completed. It will be interesting if a fix has been found.
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Old 19th September 2011, 11:04 PM   #17
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Just bear in mind that an ECU update may lock the ECU removing any remap and preventing you form uploading/remapping - see other posts on here.

I too have some hesitation and spurts of life - wonder if its the turbo kicking in. I think you just have to get used to it unless audi come up with an answer

JB



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Old 20th September 2011, 02:48 AM   #18
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Jonnie B - I am guessing your running the 6MT not the Auto.

We have I believe narrowed this specific hesitation down to Manual Transmission cars and the issue has been detected in the S5 (4.2 V8) A5 (3.2 V6 - 2.0T and 1.8T) I think that covers the range.

The VLT (Valve Lift Technology) is common across all I believe, so is the MT. Definitely not turbo lag.

Keep the posts coming
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Old 20th September 2011, 03:16 AM   #19
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Default Updates

Recently scoured other threads in reference to these problems and found some interesting discussions. Audizine forum seems to suggest that there is in fact a TSB out there as below.

2021227/2
Powertrain / Function / Engine problems while driving
Powertrain / Function / Driveability (engine)
Powertrain / Function / Lack of performance
01 Light engine hesitation under acceleration at steady throttle application at 2500 rpm and 3800 rpm.

Considering calling Audi America today and verifying which cars it applies to - sounds like it is 2009 and prior, but not sure which engines !!!

eclimax13 - would this be the TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) 2021227/2
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Old 20th September 2011, 03:59 AM   #20
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Hi Goodviz

Yes thats right, mines the 1.8TFSI.

Am I right in assuming the car will be ok running like this - its common and nothing to worry about although frustrating at times?

What needs replacing valves or injectors?

Thanks JB



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Old 20th September 2011, 01:27 PM   #21
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JonnieB - Just frustrating and should not be something we have to live with on a "quality" car. I do not think we are looking at valves or injectors here all be it dealerships would try that as a solution. The dealerships have continually tried to come up with guesses as to what it is but nothing 100% definite yet.

Based on the B7 platform of the audi there were no such problems. The new technology is the VLT (Valve lift technology). It seams as though there is a lag in the movement of the cam and solenoid and communication with the EMU or something.

Take a look at RocketMan's post in the thread. This is an excellent synopsis of the problem.

Its not going to damage the car in any way, its just an annoyance that detracts from a pleasurable driving experience.
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Old 20th September 2011, 02:16 PM   #22
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Yes, I would 2nd GoodViz and thank Rocketman for his great synopsis !!

I have this issue and replied on another thread Turbo issue on 2.0 TFSI 180bhp(?) I believe these 2 threads are the same issue.

It will be interesting to find out how eclimax13 gets on with his fix on Wednesday, maybe he can get details of the TSB number?



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Old 20th September 2011, 02:19 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnieB View Post
Hi Goodviz

Yes thats right, mines the 1.8TFSI.

Am I right in assuming the car will be ok running like this - its common and nothing to worry about although frustrating at times?

What needs replacing valves or injectors?

Thanks JB
I think replacing valves/injectors will not resolve the issue.



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Old 20th September 2011, 02:57 PM   #24
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I'll report back as soon as I get the car
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Old 20th September 2011, 11:00 PM   #25
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I totally agree Goodviz,

It is a shame

Lets see what Eclim comes back with, he has his ECU upgrade today. If this is the fix it will prevent me from loading my remap onto the car so it might be somehting I have to live with. I know now that its not going to cause damage to my car and when to expect it but no we shouldnt have to 'compromise' on what is a very nice car.

Rgds
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Old 21st September 2011, 02:35 AM   #26
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Thanks everyone and Eclim - we wait with baited breath to see what happens after the ECU update. While we are all waiting I have attached the URL to a youtube site that shows the operation of the VLT - may be the ECU and VLT are compromising each other and that split millisecond is turning into seconds !!

Who knows!!

Audi Worldwide Efficiency technologies Engines Audi valvelift system - YouTube

The changeover between the valve lift settings takes place in the range between 700 and 4,000 rpm; it is completed within two revolutions of the crankshaft. A collection of short-term interventions – a switch to retarded ignition, the adjustment of all four camshafts and the closing of the throttle – prevent torque surges. What the driver will notice are the engine’s smooth power build-up and spontaneous throttle response.

Last edited by Goodviz; 21st September 2011 at 03:07 AM.
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Old 21st September 2011, 12:08 PM   #27
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As promised I did phone Audi of America to try and clarify the TSB that is out there, what cars it applies to etc with little or no success they basically indicated that we need to get the dealership to pull the TSB and what it applies to.

I may call the dealership I use to see if they can without spending time and effort on the car verify the TSB content and whether it would address our problems.

Hopefully eclim will shed some light on this ECU update later in the week and may be the TSB the dealership used to address it. Thanks in advance
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Old 21st September 2011, 01:06 PM   #28
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Fantastic link to the youtube video from Goodviz

It does appear to be a very clever system indead, I ended up watching it twice to completely get my head around it.

If eclimax13 doesn't manage to get anything in the next couple of days, I will call the service tech next week and try and get the details of the update that was applied to my car.



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Old 22nd September 2011, 11:09 PM   #29
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Hi Guys,

Not sure if this is related but driving to work the last few days (coldish weather) my turbo has been very random. I know the right gas mixture needs to build up first but when I need it most its not there and then it kicks in at bizarre times causing the lurching effect. Its very annoying. the car goes into Audi Monday for another issue so what should I get them to check for - blockages/injectors?


Might try taking the Bluefin map off and putting the original back and see if this helps.

any help appreciated.
rgds
Jon



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Old 23rd September 2011, 03:50 AM   #30
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JonnieB - It could be related to the operation of the Throttle Body. This was one of the things I was looking into in respect of the hesitation. I actually disconnected the throttle body sensor and drove the car for a few miles and the noticeable hesitation was gone but overall sluggishness was there. Given that all of the Throttle Body, VLT, etc etc is connected I am still wondering if this is an ECU problem which may be exaggerated with "mods"

I do not have the current 2.0T, but have owned a B7 A4 2.0T and have the 2008 2.0T TT neither of which had problems in the winter.

Let us know what your dealer uncovers
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