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Old 26th April 2010, 03:11 AM   #1
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Default Beware S-Tronic/7 economy is appalling

(S-Tronic box in 3.0TDi is basically same as S5)

Audi book figures:

Manual

urban 32.1
extra urban 53.3
combined 42.8

S-Tronic (taken from sportback figures - which is even heavier so should be worse ...as coupe still not listed)
urban 34.0
extra urban 49.6
combined 42.8

my figures are tankful to tankful so DIS errors eliminated, tyre pressures same etc.

Had a 3.0TDi Manual for 11 months

economy overall 39.2mpg, could easily get 41+mpg, best 44mpg!
(DIS error +1.5mpg)

Now got a 3.0TDi S-Tronic

Economy 32.6mpg, unable to get better than 34mpg
(DIS error +3mpg)

Same journeys, same driving style, gentler if anything

Okay the car is new <2000 miles on it (figures from after first 1000 miles) but no way can I expect an improvement of 25% in the coming months.

Realistically I expected a couple of mpg worse, no more.

I can foresee some trouble about this

Anyone else got any experiences, particularly comparitive?
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Old 26th April 2010, 04:24 AM   #2
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2000 miles from new, 1 month old and showing an average of 33MPG
1500 of those miles are motorway where I prob do 90mph on average- the rest are to the office on a ring road where I am generally accelerating at approx 60% full throttle- stop starting at about 6 large racey roundabouts and a load of junctions.

Coming from a Cooper S that did i drove in exactly the same way and again averaged about 33mpg from new, I am not that bothered. But i would like to have a comparitive drive in a S5. I went with my head and not heart in getting the Diesel- proposing better economy (i do 25-30k miles per annum) The S5 Cab would have only been a couple of grand more expensive than what i paid for the 3.0tdi with all the bells and whistles (S5 comes with more stuff as standard)

If it turns out the S5 MPG is comparitive to the 3.0tdi I will be a bit miffed- but hey ho. The reviews often say the 3.0tdi is the one out of the range to buy- and I am sure when it comes to resale there are many average Joes out there who would straight away rule out a S5 for the 3.0tdi on the basis of economy.



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Old 26th April 2010, 04:29 AM   #3
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Howdi you're consistent with mine then.

Problem I have is that the previousl Manual in like for like driving was 25% more economical - and that can't be right

Even in a Tip I would expect no more than 10%, and in theory an S-Tronic should be better than a Tip
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Old 26th April 2010, 08:25 AM   #4
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This does not sound too wonderful but is in line with what we have read from other threads, it's really quite odd and I wonder how they make the figures they claim because it seems worse in all situations!



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Old 26th April 2010, 08:42 AM   #5
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They certainly claim better economy for the S-Tronic over the Tiptronic whereas the opposite seems to be true. Getting high 30s mpg in my Tip though mainly long journies relatively gentle driving but Sport mode does not seem to make much difference. Cold weather hurts economy more. Worrying as I was into the idea of upgrading to S-Tronic



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Old 26th April 2010, 09:45 AM   #6
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Unlike a gas engine a diesel does not really brake in until 10,000 miles. Fuel economy will continue to improve. However that is dismal. One thing I know from the VW TDi side of the house. Due to emission restrictions the fuel economy of the TDi engines went down every year because the engine is getting clog up more and more to meet stricter emission standards. So it is not easy to compare a diesel with one that is 2 years older.
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Old 26th April 2010, 11:18 AM   #7
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Ah Gruffle - Audi fuel consumption figures and reality not quite matching? Surely not? A 10-15% error is about right - so you have exceeded that.

Being a diesel and not having the combustion chamber temps of our petrol brothers the engine is going to take a while longer to bed in - fuel economy will improve with miles.

One shouldn't discount that the transmission probably has a capability to learn and adapt to your driving style - so if you have been hoofing your new toy then it will have noted that and done it's best to oblige - not always with economy in mind! It will constantly re-assess and adjust accordingly....



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Old 26th April 2010, 11:36 AM   #8
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As I wrote in another thread, my new S5 with V6T and 7-speed S-tronic drives LESS kilometers (or miles) with the same liters (or gallons) as my previous S5 with V8 and manual gearbox!

At best (cruising on the highway with airco, etc off) I get the SAME mileage in my V6T for that specific trip, compared to the average mileage I got in the V8 over the whole lifetime owned this car.

And the new engine that was installed after 3500 km (see other thread) did improve it a little, but still not better than my V8.

It could be that the relatively new 7-speed S-tronic is not programmed very efficiently? A major sw upgrade coming up I hope?



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Old 26th April 2010, 12:22 PM   #9
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Been driving a S4 Stronic whilst mine in for repairs , noticed that whilst the S4is happy in a higher gear the Tdi hangs on to the lower gears at 30mph , this really buggers up the fuel economy , had thought it was the box but I guess its the programming with the diesel.



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Old 26th April 2010, 12:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmicblue View Post
Being a diesel and not having the combustion chamber temps of our petrol brothers the engine is going to take a while longer to bed in - fuel economy will improve with miles.
what - improve by 25% - now that is what I call optimistic.

Anyway I've always considered economy improving with miles a load of bllx. This has more to do with the driver getting used to the car than anything else.

First 1000 miles sure, but if an engine is designed to do 300K miles at what point do you finish running it in and start wearing it out. At 250K miles should be doing 150mpg

Trouble is I've done comparitive deceleration tests and the cars are similar so suggests drivetrain losses not the major cause

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmicblue View Post
One shouldn't discount that the transmission probably has a capability to learn and adapt to your driving style - so if you have been hoofing your new toy then it will have noted that and done it's best to oblige - not always with economy in mind! It will constantly re-assess and adjust accordingly....
Been driving the thing like a damn pussy cat.
Next tankful I'm going to hoof the sh*t out of it.
If it wants loosening up it's just about to get it

Sweepstake on what I can get a tankful down to miles wise and keep my licence?
Normal A road journeys, no city stuff.
old car 39 mpg/495 miles; this one 33 mpg/430 miles so far
... what do you reckon?
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Old 26th April 2010, 12:45 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gruffle View Post
Been driving the thing like a damn pussy cat.
Next tankful I'm going to hoof the sh*t out of it.
If it wants loosening up it's just about to get it
Just needs the exhaust clearing out a bit - its clogged up with all that pussy driving LoL. Afterwards, recon you'll get 37mpg

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Old 26th April 2010, 01:19 PM   #12
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and 9 points???
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Old 26th April 2010, 01:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gruffle View Post
and 9 points???
Good point well presented if your talking about higher speeds, which I am not advocating you do though a few good point to point acceleration runs will get it breathing again...... .

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Old 26th April 2010, 01:37 PM   #14
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Racelogic at the ready
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Old 26th April 2010, 02:46 PM   #15
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This is all very worrying, I have just ordered a fully loaded 3.0 TDI S Line Special Edition and have specified S-Tronic as I was under the impression that the performance and fuel consumption were as good (if not slightly better) then the manual. I probably have a few days to re-configure the specification to manual. Unless someone chirps up with a contrary story I think I will have to ditch the S-Tronic for manual.
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Old 26th April 2010, 02:58 PM   #16
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Not sure if I am being dumb but can't you switch the S Tronic to manual mode and have all the joys of the electronic clutch without it coosing your change points?

Any ideas if engine Drive Select in comfort gives less sporty more fuel efficient changes?
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Old 26th April 2010, 03:02 PM   #17
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@Midfield
Hmm maybe dangerous post by me then.

I have to say I absolutely love the S-Tronic overall, (and all the Drive Select stuff and the MMI3G too)

Just occasionally you can trip it up but mostly it is fantastic and completely suits the character of the car.

... but the economy is a worry compared to the manual no doubt.

What we really need is for a few other folks to post up their mpgs on new Manuals and S-Tronics to get a better picture.

All I can say is try to get as many opinions as possible, as I would feel really bad if you talked yourself out of an S-Tronic only for us to find out it really does loosen up with a few more miles.

I also even now would be quite happy back in a manual, the one real point where the S-Tronic scores emphatically is 1st-2nd off the line. The Audi M6 box just isnt quick enough for such a short 1st gear, there again how often do you really floor it off the line? But when you do ...!

By now it should be apparent that I am trying to balance on top of the fence:
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Old 26th April 2010, 03:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxnrg View Post
Not sure if I am being dumb but can't you switch the S Tronic to manual mode and have all the joys of the electronic clutch without it coosing your change points?

Any ideas if engine Drive Select in comfort gives less sporty more fuel efficient changes?
You can indeed switch to manual (completely with the selector, or flipping a paddle will do it too and it will slide back into auto after a few seconds . And very well it does it too.

A new issue here though, the 3.0TDi engine is so damn quiet you find you have to watch the tacho more than you'd like to. (find the video with Audio on the RS5 and it sounds glorious blipping the V8 on the downchange).

Drive select really just holds onto higher revs, so you have more chance of being at peak torque exactly when you want it.

For me Drive Select Engine/Gearbox: Auto and grab a paddle when you want it then let it slide back to auto works beautifully.
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Old 26th April 2010, 03:25 PM   #19
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If you are going for low economy, it's all about the constant hard accelerating and braking. 0-60-0-60-0-60-0-60; you may have a sore neck but your car will show a nice low number!!

Seriously, my old car claimed 55.4mpg, lowest tank I ever did was an computer claimed 20.8mpg, I even had better than that spending a tank on a track, but that's what 200 miles of traffic does. That equates though to 14.9mpg in the 3.0TDI compared to its claimed figures - good luck!



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Old 27th April 2010, 12:15 AM   #20
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I like the S-tronic: very smooth (contrary to some reports) in fully auto yet very quick when you put your foot down. In 'D' mode, press the accelerator sharply and it will change down automatically then change up again when you reduce the pressure. I occasionally use it in manual mode.

On the other hand, we only get about 20mpg in city driving (and that's just leaving it in 'D' all the time). Motorway, maybe 28mpg (again 'D' most of the time and [mostly] within the speed limit). Way off the Audi figures. I believe the "official" figures are measured with the air-con off but I find it difficult to believe that that would make such a difference. Also, I'd like to know if these official figures assume 'D' mode or expect the driver to be using manual mode, if so, you'd think that 'D' mode would be profiled to match for maximum mpg.

Anyway................



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Old 27th April 2010, 12:23 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncleTom View Post
I like the S-tronic: very smooth (contrary to some reports) in fully auto yet very quick when you put your foot down. In 'D' mode, press the accelerator sharply and it will change down automatically then change up again when you reduce the pressure. I occasionally use it in manual mode.

On the other hand, we only get about 20mpg in city driving (and that's just leaving it in 'D' all the time). Motorway, maybe 28mpg (again 'D' most of the time and [mostly] within the speed limit). Way off the Audi figures. I believe the "official" figures are measured with the air-con off but I find it difficult to believe that that would make such a difference. Also, I'd like to know if these official figures assume 'D' mode or expect the driver to be using manual mode, if so, you'd think that 'D' mode would be profiled to match for maximum mpg.

Anyway................
The claimed economy for your car is 30.4mpg Urban, 44.8mpg Extra Urban, and you only get 20/28?

Oh dear am I starting to fear the worst for the S5 that claims 20.5/38.7. Does that mean I'm going to be seeing figures like 13-14mpg?! (Car lives for full tanks at a time at <30mph)



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Old 27th April 2010, 02:00 AM   #22
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I suppose I should also say that our city driving consists of lots of short trips so that doesn't help. Also, total milage is about 4000 miles and "received wisdom" says that mpg improves with more miles. Air-con is usually on automatic.

Even in 'D' mode, we're not very heavy with the right foot (especially my wife).

These figures are my own calculation (full tank to full tank), number of litres taken from fuel pump (which I hope is accurate!), mileage from DIS.

Interestingly, the DIS (using trip computer 2 which only resets when you tell it to) always seems to calculate 2mpg more than my own calculations.

Even with these caveats, there still seems to be a big gap between official and actual figures.



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Old 27th April 2010, 02:24 AM   #23
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I think you can bet that the official figures were achieved with a car that had no optional extras, low rolling resistance wheels, no spare wheel or tools in the boot and a racing driver type who weighed 65kg using the manual mode on the s-tronic.

I think that some manufacturers produce their figures with more real-world setups. Others might even understate so that people are happy when they exceed the figures.



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Old 27th April 2010, 03:01 AM   #24
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Hi everyone, this is my 1st post. I too have a 2.0tq s/tronic sportback. The average for me is 26mpg which I think is qite poor. I just leave it in D all the time. I also have a Boxster S with PDK and drove to Leeds doing over 90mph in a rush and got 31mpg on that trip. Dont get it? I thought this 7 speed s/ tronic is suppose to save fuel like it does in the Porsche.
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Old 27th April 2010, 04:42 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmee150 View Post
The claimed economy for your car is 30.4mpg Urban, 44.8mpg Extra Urban, and you only get 20/28?
According to his sig he has the 2.0T engine, not the TDI. He was just giving his experience with the S-tronic.



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Old 27th April 2010, 04:45 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post
According to his sig he has the 2.0T engine, not the TDI. He was just giving his experience with the S-tronic.
The figures I quoted were the ones for the 211ps 2.0TFSI Quattro with S-Tronic.

Brochure here: http://www.audi.co.uk/content/dam/au...ides/a5-s5.pdf

But of course, UK economy figures, not USA.



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Old 27th April 2010, 09:14 AM   #27
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IMO the easiest approach to take when it comes to Audi's stated fuel figures in their brochure is to consider it like a 'political party manifesto'; aspirational intent, but consitently fail to deliver.

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Old 27th April 2010, 11:26 AM   #28
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I should have said that I currently own a manual 3.TDI and get excellent fuel economy my PB is just over 50MPG, my daily average is around 45MPG so anything radically worse than this wouldn't be very desirable even give the nice aspects of the S-Tronic. I give myself until the end of the week to make my mind up to either stick with the S-Tronic or change the order to the manual.
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:33 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidfieldGeneral View Post
I should have said that I currently own a manual 3.TDI and get excellent fuel economy my PB is just over 50MPG, my daily average is around 45MPG so anything radically worse than this wouldn't be very desirable even give the nice aspects of the S-Tronic. I give myself until the end of the week to make my mind up to either stick with the S-Tronic or change the order to the manual.
They have to be DIS figures, I can't believe they're real.

Try to do a tankful to tankful test so you have accurate figures, I would expect in reality 40mpg, 45mpg absolute best (equivalent to about 500 miles per tankful).
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Old 27th April 2010, 12:11 PM   #30
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gruffle, yes they are DIS figures I didn't realise they were inaccurate by that much! I'm still minded to switch but we see how I feel over the next few days. As there must be several 3.0TDi + S-Tronic owners on this forum it would be great if they could also post their impressions/measurements etc.

Last edited by MidfieldGeneral; 27th April 2010 at 12:13 PM.
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